Time to call a duck a duck, part II

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OK. I had an infamous thread going that challenged the notion that nursing is a profession. If you are REALLY BORED, go ahead and read it.

Since then, I've had a bit of an epiphany. I couldn't help but wonder "What was the bug up my butt about it anyway?" and "Why is it so important to convince others of this?" Well, you ever get that wonderful brain fart syndrome going after working a night shift? The next day, you are trying to recall a well known relatives phone number or someone's name you should remember, but you don't. Then, out of the blue, a little while after you stop thinking about it, it comes to you. Thats what happened to me. I stopped stressing over it, and I was all of a sudden able to put my finger on it. The orig. thread touched on it a bit, but in an indirect manner.

In the orig. thread, I rambled a lot about the personality types who "Consider nursing an image instead of a career/job" and all the lovely nurses who preempt every statement with "Well, I'm a nurse and I think................." as if it makes a difference (Seriously, I once answered someone who said that "Well, I'm a nurse and a former landscaper and former student and former brick layer laborer and former grocery bagger and I think................). It was as if I were trying to describe some sort of individual who was bad for nursing, but I couldn't put my finger on "The Issue".

So, finally, today, all the little separate details that were somehow wrong in my eyes came together to make sense.

Nursing is a profession. It does combine intellect with physical labor, and neither one can be successful without the other. It does have it's theory, although I don't agree with most about what said theory is. In fact, that was what the epiphany was about:

Seems nursing theory has been a bit diluted by our "leaders" who came before us AND, most of all, our current leaders. Care plans that no one reads, diagnosis that have no use no matter how far you stretch reality to say they are used and numerous other things that, in reality, are simply ideas borrowed from other fields and renamed. No wonder no one else considers us professionals if this is the best we can do. Many of the things wrong with nursing theory today have one thing in common though: They all take us away from the beside and put us in front of a chart/computer. The mechanics of the theories are followed through from an administrative angle, and are meant for people away from the bedside. NURSING OCCURS AT THE BEDSIDE.

The problem with "nursing theory" is that it is often written by those who consider themselves above bedside nursing. Hence the theory that flows from them, inevitably, really doesn't have much to do with "bedside nursing". But, is not bedside nursing the point? Do we nurse our patients back to health, or do we "nurse" paperwork?

Consider, for a second, nursing before paperwork and impressing administration became so important. Do you think for a second the nurses of old, the ones who nursed back when there were no computers or anything...............weren't "nursing"? Did their patients lack in some way because they didn't jot down in some chart how their care reflected "Age specific needs" or how they "Interpreted the pt. reaction to illness"?

I say, profoundly, "NO". In fact, I'll follow with, they were probably better off. A little less time talking and self important chest pounding and a little more time doing the things that help (dressing changes, help with ambulation to avoid falls, taking one's time passing meds to avoid errors). THAT IS NURSING.

Our profession suffers because we hang ourselves. The people who rise through our ranks and hence represent us to the decision makers often, along the road to progressing in their careers, pick up some sort of disdain for bedside nursing. It's "remedial" and "meant for the ancillary staff". If this is the face of nursing that the public and the decision makers see, is it hard to believe such a low value is placed on what we do and that we often feel the need to call our jobs "thankless"? Our very own leaders from within the field, unfortunately, are often in their position of power because they have worked hard to distance themselves from bedside nursing. Nothing wrong with that, if you don't think it is your niche, you are better off elsewhere. What I do have a problem with is when our leaders forget their roots and why they are where they are. If there was no need for the staff nurses, there certainly is no need for administrative/managerial nurses. They forget their roots, begin to believe and buy into the business side's way of thinking and take on an air that nursing is for the ones who don't get it.

Why this phenomenon occurs is a mystery to me. Might be because, the nurse found out they truly hate bedside nursing and want nothing more than to never have to hear "Nuuuuuurrrrseeee, I want dilaudid/a bed pan/need tissue handed to me" again. In their efforts to distance themselves from clinical/bedside nursing, they unintentionally take on a holier than thou air. Or, it might be that, for fear of being replaced, once they get into the board room meetings they join hands with and take on the attitudes of the business minded. Regardless, the lack of respect for our profession isn't going away any time soon BECAUSE IT STARTS AT THE TOP OF OUR OWN PROFESSION.

I now do believe nursing is a profession, and I'm talking about "Nursing", not board room meetings or care plan evaluating. We can not be replaced. As a "remedial" nurse who still believes my best work is done at the bedside, I will be continuing my my education soon. Why? Because I want a more well informed opinion on who our leaders should be and more say in who they are. Maybe someday I'll be in a position too where I can be the face of the profession, but I don't plan on forgetting my roots.

Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
Totally agree with you heron. The thing that worries me though is that I really do feel there are nurses who just cannot see that famous 'big picture' (maybe it's an experience thing and that makes it difficult when the brand new nurse is expected to be able to perform at the same level as the experienced nurse) and I wonder how much of that has contributed to the introduction of case management.

Hehheh. I love these discussions. We are fighting a social ill- it is not possible to be "whatever you set your mind to being..." Period. End of story. Some people are critical/deconstrucionist thinkers, some are not, and there is only a limited amount of change that is possible via "training."

My personal opinion was always that if you could not actively participate in a differential diagnosis, you had no business in acute areas- be that as a lab tech or the resident. Why? Because being able to differentiate allows effective anticipatory intercession, be it drawing extra blood for testing, or telling an RN to pull med X, "just in case".

Nursing theory is a convoluted attempt to standardize decision making that crosses disciplinary boundaries; in turn, that has become an almost purely theoretical model uncontaminated by reality.

Without going on an 8 page rant, I'll simply say that I am a huge proponent of mentored, diploma-style programs. With respect to those that have actually done the work, I will say that even at the BSN level, there are quite a few who were able to buy the degree, but lack the insight and experience to "hold the title".

What I've found in private/for-profit hospitals, senior nurses are inducted into admin/management and are offered incentive bonuses to come up with or implement schemes to reduce staffing. In these cases, their "expertise" bears no relation whatsoever to patient care, only company profit.

Very true. Then another hospital system purchases the hospital and the same nursing management team who reduced staffing ,

are out the door themselves....

that's business..

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
erik, if you think the only nursing that occurs is at the bedside then you don't understand what "nursing' is.

i've said this to you before and i'll say it again: you desperately need to get away from the bedside....away from the hospital or acute care altogether to get a different perspective.

nursing involves much more than a bunch of physical tasks which frankly anyone can be trained to do. the nursing involves assessment, planning as well as the doing. none of those is worth a hill of beans without the other.

i do not touch patients. i do not even see patients. what i do is review medical records, labs, radiology and assess function, psychosocial status and cognitive status sometimes by chart review and sometimes by telephonic assessment and then i go into a room with a bunch of other healthcare professionals and create the dreaded care plan.

and this is going to shock you: we save lives. through my assessments and the resulting care plan, i've made sure patient's got the care they needed that the people laying eyes and hands on them missed. we've found abnormal labs and radiology that were missed and not followed up on, addressed unsafe home situations, recommended follow-up care that resulted in improved outcomes such as better controlled diabetes and heart failure and the list goes on. more importantly, my nursing care makes sure that the patient does not end up needing your nursing care.

i nurse and people get better.

actually, this is even more of an example of "a nurse performing a role, which is not nursing, but using their nursing background to do well in said role" than they examples i've come up with.

i'm sorry you feel left out by this description............but the thread title is "call a duck a duck". an innate desire to feel accepted by your peers and include yourself in their job title is not enough to be called "nurse". sorry.

i'm going to play nicely here to and point out to you that you described "bedside nursing" as "a bunch of physical tasks anyone can do." really..............? ok then. i'll reiterate my original point from when i started this thread, "we need better leadership than what exists now, our current leaders tend to be detached and devalue our core practive."

how bout this, since you obviously feel strongly about the fact that you are a nurse. take the advice you gave me and walk the talk. show me you know what you're talking about and aren't just desperately trying to be accepted into the "nursing" ranks. take your own advice (it shouldn't be too hard, right? its just a bunch of physical tasks anyone can do) and go do a few rotations on the units. start of with a week or two on a m/s unit and then tell me what you think. we're not done yet, cause then you go to, oh.........the er, then the icu, maybe finish up with oncology. do a couple weeks at each one. up to the task? i mean..........you got us bedside nurses all figured out right, it should be a cake walk.

as far the the red highlighted area goes..........sorry, thats the exact point i said to myself "administrator". you didn't help yourself much there. again............no such thing as "nursing" a computer, paperwork, a care plan. they don't get sick.

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
Hehheh. I love these discussions. We are fighting a social ill- it is not possible to be "whatever you set your mind to being..." Period. End of story. Some people are critical/deconstrucionist thinkers, some are not, and there is only a limited amount of change that is possible via "training."

My personal opinion was always that if you could not actively participate in a differential diagnosis, you had no business in acute areas- be that as a lab tech or the resident. Why? Because being able to differentiate allows effective anticipatory intercession, be it drawing extra blood for testing, or telling an RN to pull med X, "just in case".

Nursing theory is a convoluted attempt to standardize decision making that crosses disciplinary boundaries; in turn, that has become an almost purely theoretical model uncontaminated by reality.

Without going on an 8 page rant, I'll simply say that I am a huge proponent of mentored, diploma-style programs. With respect to those that have actually done the work, I will say that even at the BSN level, there are quite a few who were able to buy the degree, but lack the insight and experience to "hold the title".

Another nurse (who has not shown up here yet, to my surprise) and I were debating if there was any real/practical difference between BSN/MSN and ADN. I still have my doubts, but will be moving forward with my education with the hopes of eventually getting into Informatics.

We did agree though that, the most ideal career/educational path is to start out ADN, get a strong clinical background w/e that my be for you, then continue your education.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Actually, this is even more of an example of "a nurse performing a role, which is not nursing, but using their nursing background to do well in said role" than they examples I've come up with.

I'm sorry you feel left out by this description............but the thread title IS "call a duck a duck". An innate desire to feel accepted by your peers and include yourself in their job title is not enough to be called "Nurse". Sorry.

I'm going to play nicely here to and point out to you that you described "bedside nursing" as "a bunch of physical tasks anyone can do." Really..............? OK then. I'll reiterate my original point from when I started this thread, "we need better leadership than what exists now, our current leaders tend to be detached and devalue our core practive."

How bout this, since you obviously feel strongly about the fact that you are a nurse. Take the advice you gave me and walk the talk. Show me you know what you're talking about and aren't just desperately trying to be accepted into the "nursing" ranks. Take your own advice (it shouldn't be too hard, right? Its just a bunch of physical tasks anyone can do) and go do a few rotations on the units. Start of with a week or two on a M/S unit and then tell me what you think. We're not done yet, cause then you go to, oh.........the ER, then the ICU, maybe finish up with oncology. Do a couple weeks at each one. Up to the task? I mean..........you got us bedside nurses all figured out right, it should be a cake walk.

As far the the red highlighted area goes..........sorry, thats the exact point I said to myself "administrator". You didn't help yourself much there. Again............no such thing as "nursing" a computer, paperwork, a care plan. They don't get sick.

Now you've gone completely off the reservation. I do not feel a desire to be accepted by anyone and I certainly don't have anything to prove. Desperately trying to be accepted into nursing ranks, that's hilarious. I have 20 years of nursing experience and I have walked more than enough miles to earn my cred. If that's not enough for you, I could care less. The difference between you and I is that I have done what you do but you haven't done what I do. So why don't you take your own challenge and you may learn something. Good luck, I hope you can cut it.

Specializes in ICU.
Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
The difference between you and I is that I have done what you do but you haven't done what I do. So why don't you take your own challenge and you may learn something. Good luck, I hope you can cut it.

Good point -- worth repeating. Until you have experience in a job (such as nursing leadership and/or advanced roles), your understanding is limited to that of an outsider. People who have only held one type of job within nursing have had a very limited view of the profession.

That doesn't mean their ideas should be ignored ... but we do have to take their limited perspective into account as we consider them.

I know ... I'm not being very nice ... but the very essence of this thread is insulting to all us nurses out there who are not in traditional staff nurse positions. Staff nurse is just one role within the larger profession. It is not the only nursing role.

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
now you've gone completely off the reservation. i do not feel a desire to be accepted by anyone and i certainly don't have anything to prove. desperately trying to be accepted into nursing ranks, that's hilarious.

you spend a lot time trying to convince others that you are indeed a nurse..........that's where my impression comes from. but i can't help but wonder, what state of mind is someone in when: in one post, they devalue the nursing practice..............and then turn around and in another post get upset because someone showed them they are not practicing nursing? am i wrong when i recall the statement "nursing is nothing but physical tasks" and think it was you who said it?

[goes back through thread, rechecks]

no, i'm not wrong. that is odd behavior, you understand that right? that changing directions so sharply and quickly is.......not indicative of someone who knows what they think. its like..............being locked in vacancy.

i have 20 years of nursing experience and i have walked more than enough miles to earn my cred.

mmmmm.........eerrrr...........well, one thing though. u r not counting your present position as nursing experience, are you? psssst............its not been 20 years if you are.

if that's not enough for you, i could care less. the difference between you and i is that i have done what you do but you haven't done what i do. so why don't you take your own challenge and you may learn something. good luck, i hope you can cut it.

see, the problem is, you are so far removed from patients and the bedside, you can't relate or even form a concrete idea about what it is anymore.

i mean, really. lol. you called me out and said you were a nurse, and your contribution as a nurse is that you make "care plans". and then you wonder why i don't take you very seriously.

care plans? really? we are talking about those tools for learning that everyone does in nsg 101? any nurse whose completed 101 lvl courses does that. its not some hidden, dark knowledge that you are working with there. you do realize, in a clinical/acute setting..........they have no real value whatsoever. none. the only reason we spend any time on them at all is because our bosses, and the decision makers, require it of us. and the only reason they want it done is..........to make jacho and state officials happy. thats it. no studies out there proving "hospital a with its much better care plans has a lower mortality rate..........". lol. are you.........in denial of this or just.................idk what.

see, you have it backwards. in your mind, those that sit at the desk and make "care plans" (my gosh, i can barely type without laughing) are the queens and kings of nursing, displaying skills and intellect that god reserved for only his favorites. meanwhile, bedside nursing, with its limits of being merely "physical labor" (your description) and being for "the remedial types" (llg's description), is for those less fortunate. mmmmm.............no.

bedside nursing requires more skill, critical thinking and knowledge than any office job. the bedside is not some training ground for higher positions...........it is the alpha and omega. everything that comes out of an office takes less skill, less intellect and less experience/knowledge. again, the point of the medical field is better pt. outcomes. bedside nursing affects this...................and is probably with a great many patients, the driving force between life and death. bedside nursing is the top of the triangle, not at the bottom as you would have it.

answer me this: nursing 101 students can write care plans, do so without supervision and often do so with great skill. wanna put said student in the icu for a night with no supervision? it's just physical, right? even if they are remedial, they can handle it, right? come on now......................where does it make sense to state bedside nursing is the lower end of the nursing spectrum in that scenario?

Specializes in ICU.

I'm willing to bet that floor nurses draft care plans all the time - in their minds - and use them to organize and individualize care. They just don't have time to sit behind a desk and type them up because they're busy implementing them.

Specializes in geriatrics.

Nursing is nursing, no matter what the role is, or what setting you do it. Everyone has unique talents and skills, and bedside nursing is just as important as administration or education roles in nursing, or vice versa. These are interdisciplinary roles that complement each other. Furthermore, the setting in which one chooses to practice nursing is theirs alone; no one should judge or criticize. Furthermore, the nursing process remains the same, no matter where you practice.

Everyone has unique talents and skills, and bedside nursing is just as important as administration or education roles in nursing, or vice versa. These are interdisciplinary roles that complement each other. .

Excellent point. If in reality the unique skills and talents of bedside nursing were respected,

bedside nurses would be allowed to give their input to improve working conditions on

behalf of their patients. Not given scripts to recite to patients, and have their autonomy to navigate the course of care plan for their patient eroded.

Interdisciplinary roles would then complement again on behalf of the patient, because all disciplines would use their knowledge and skills to unite

for the best comprehensive care plan for each patient without

interpersonal or interdisciplinary conflict.

When the emphasis switched to business, the patient has been left far behind in many healthcare settings, as the acquisition of dollar bills

became the main priority.....

Patient advocates like Eriksoln and many others continue bring the spotlight back to the patient and their needs..........

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
I'm willing to bet that floor nurses draft care plans all the time - in their minds - and use them to organize and individualize care. They just don't have time to sit behind a desk and type them up because they're busy implementing them.

This was brought up in the first Duck thread. That, even if care plans never cross your mind as you go about your duties, you are actually performing them, albeit on a sub-conscious way or something. IDK, I won't say that's wrong, but at the same time I'm not going to agree.

If I get a patient with some dx I am not familiar with, I don't run to the policies manual and look up the "care plan" for that pt. I look up the disease first, see what the pt. is at risk for etc..........

The "sub-conscious" care plan stuff just doesn't jive with me for some odd reason. I'm mean, really, if you wanna get technical about it, what job/career/profession doesn't that apply to? You could say everyone is doing care plans with everything they do.

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