The Circumcision Discussion

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better medically in the long run. My gpa who just turned 70 had to have a circ. due to endless complications lately.

As nurses in this area, is the medication that they use good? And what are some questions to ask my Dr. about it. I already know that my hospital i'll be at uses a med. when they perform it, I"m just wondering what you all think.

Thanks

Jen :)

intersting I come across this blog posted by a horrified mom:

(and by the way, there are plenty of other circ disasters, including deaths, out there to research...all fully 100% preventable and unecessary)

(also, - I dont have time to find all of the links and info right now, but if memory serves me correctly, all of these "circ's saves the world from __________" studies have many serious flaws in them, its just that the original studies that come out are grabbed by the media and when the retractions and/or the flaws are out there, interestingly enough, they just never get the same "press time")

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This was posted in a group for mothers on Myspace. Keep in mind, serious complications like this are more common than most people think. Most are not reported so as to protect the boy and his family from embarassment.

Yesterday was Haydens circumsion, and it went horribly wrong. We got him home and went to change his wrap and there was too much blood, we rushed him back to the doctors and Hayden almost bled to death. He was so pale, and wouldnt react to any stimulation hardly. They spent 1 hour trying to get it to stop, the doctor kept pushing and pushing and I just kept crying. It looks horrible. They had to use 5 gel things to stop the blood when the doctor said only one will do. All the nurses were waiting when we left to see how he was. His member looks hideous, swollen, deformed, and it appears the doctor cut too much. Later on around 11pm hes breathing got really rapid so we rushed him to the ER and the doctors looked at it. They said if there was no bleeding theres nothing they can do, and only time will tell if the doctor cut to much or damaged his member. (we took him to phx childrens hospital, and they got us in immediately it looked so bad) We have another check up today, and one Friday. All I can say, is honestly, if you want your son circumsized you are taking a huge risk, no matter the doctor. This doctor has preformed tons, in fact I believe he is Jewish even. I won't even touch Hayden, I feel so horrible, my mom has to feed him, change his clothes, his diapers, his wrap, ect... Its the most horrible feeling knowing you just fucked up your own kid. I blame Matt, he is the reason Hayden has welfare insurance, other wise he would of been done the next day at the hospital. Also they ripped his umbilical cord off in the process. His balls look like golf balls, and there is so much bruising at the base of the member. I will include a picture. The whole time the doctor kept saying, oh he cant feel any pain, hes just mad, and I kept saying no he can, I can tell by my sons cry, ive never heard this tone and pitch before in his life. My mom said your going to give him cardiac arrest. It was just horrible. I kept saying should we take him to the ER? And he said what are you asking me, no he is fine. I felt like saying this is my son, i know when hes fine, and hes not. But I knew we had to stop the bleeding first. Now Hayden is having nightmares, whimpering in his sleep, and I am afraid to even look him in the eye because I remember how his eyes looked, just like help me mom. Just everyone pray that it heals well, and nothing is done to his member, theres no permanet damage and hes okay. What also upsets me, is Hayden just got nursing down. Hes been nursing for an hour every 3 hours except at night the past 2 days, and now he just gets so frantic he wont nurse. If your going to get your son circ. theres no amount of research that isn't enough, and after this, I wouldn't ever suggest it.

In a later post, she posted that her son has received permanent damage and that his member will likely never look "right."

Below are links to some of the pictures she posted of what happened. BE WARNED, they are very graphic:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/Hayden11106156.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/Hayden11106155.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/asaasaHayden11106155.jpg

links should work now

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Specializes in Accepted...Master's Entry Program, 2008!.

Thank you, onehusbandsevenkids. In my last post I stated (as a layperson, even) that this study appears flawed, with so many variables unaccounted for (dry sex, female genitals, as well as sex frequency, number of partners, geographic location, wealth, education, and a host of other factors).

It seems to me that the people on this board should clearly see the errors made in the "research" linking circumcision with reduced HIV transmission. I'm not even very well schooled in research protocols, and I see a host of errors.

And before the host of angry rebuttals start talking about how *they* have never seen a "bad" circumcision -- A) that doesn't mean they do not happen and B) that alone does not have anything to do with this silly, flawed research.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
intersting I come across this blog posted by a horrified mom:

(and by the way, there are plenty of other circ disasters, including deaths, out there to research...all fully 100% preventable and unecessary)

(also, - I dont have time to find all of the links and info right now, but if memory serves me correctly, all of these "circ's saves the world from __________" studies have many serious flaws in them, its just that the original studies that come out are grabbed by the media and when the retractions and/or the flaws are out there, interestingly enough, they just never get the same "press time")

**********************************************************************

This was posted in a group for mothers on Myspace. Keep in mind, serious complications like this are more common than most people think. Most are not reported so as to protect the boy and his family from embarassment.

Yesterday was Haydens circumsion, and it went horribly wrong. We got him home and went to change his wrap and there was too much blood, we rushed him back to the doctors and Hayden almost bled to death. He was so pale, and wouldnt react to any stimulation hardly. They spent 1 hour trying to get it to stop, the doctor kept pushing and pushing and I just kept crying. It looks horrible. They had to use 5 gel things to stop the blood when the doctor said only one will do. All the nurses were waiting when we left to see how he was. His member looks hideous, swollen, deformed, and it appears the doctor cut too much. Later on around 11pm hes breathing got really rapid so we rushed him to the ER and the doctors looked at it. They said if there was no bleeding theres nothing they can do, and only time will tell if the doctor cut to much or damaged his member. (we took him to phx childrens hospital, and they got us in immediately it looked so bad) We have another check up today, and one Friday. All I can say, is honestly, if you want your son circumsized you are taking a huge risk, no matter the doctor. This doctor has preformed tons, in fact I believe he is Jewish even. I won't even touch Hayden, I feel so horrible, my mom has to feed him, change his clothes, his diapers, his wrap, ect... Its the most horrible feeling knowing you just fucked up your own kid. I blame Matt, he is the reason Hayden has welfare insurance, other wise he would of been done the next day at the hospital. Also they ripped his umbilical cord off in the process. His balls look like golf balls, and there is so much bruising at the base of the member. I will include a picture. The whole time the doctor kept saying, oh he cant feel any pain, hes just mad, and I kept saying no he can, I can tell by my sons cry, ive never heard this tone and pitch before in his life. My mom said your going to give him cardiac arrest. It was just horrible. I kept saying should we take him to the ER? And he said what are you asking me, no he is fine. I felt like saying this is my son, i know when hes fine, and hes not. But I knew we had to stop the bleeding first. Now Hayden is having nightmares, whimpering in his sleep, and I am afraid to even look him in the eye because I remember how his eyes looked, just like help me mom. Just everyone pray that it heals well, and nothing is done to his member, theres no permanet damage and hes okay. What also upsets me, is Hayden just got nursing down. Hes been nursing for an hour every 3 hours except at night the past 2 days, and now he just gets so frantic he wont nurse. If your going to get your son circ. theres no amount of research that isn't enough, and after this, I wouldn't ever suggest it.

In a later post, she posted that her son has received permanent damage and that his member will likely never look "right."

Below are links to some of the pictures she posted of what happened. BE WARNED, they are very graphic:

Close:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...en11106155.jpg

Farther:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...en11106155.jpg

Another angle:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...en11106156.jpg

As a Mom-to-be, I am still on the fence about this. Yes, my other two sons are uncircumcized and one wishes he had been. Everytime I read things like this it goes further toward no circumcision. I was interested in seeing the pictures so I know what kinds of things to look for if, and that's a big if, I decide to go this way. but, the pictures wouldn't come up, it said page not found. Is there a way you can provide a link to the blog for reference?

tvccrn

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Routine Infant Circumcision - Google Video

for those interested, btw this is a 5 min video condensed down from 14 mins.

make sure you have your sound turned on. If you're response is that the baby should have had pain relief & that they get it nowadays, I'll have you know that I've talked with many different nurses in several different states who tell me that circs like this happen all the time. Pain relief doesnt work, docs are too rushed to give it time, ect. The pain (torture is what is actually is) the baby goes through is just a small part of this whole issue.

also, there is a whole "world" of men out there that ARE very upset they were circed without their consent, there are even foreskin restoration efforts. And, adult males state that without question s*x is better uncirced, which only makes sense.

Personally, I would never chose to have an elective, cosmetic surgery done on my child. If he wanted it done, he is more than welcome to have it done himself when he is of consenting age & can choose for himself. Who am I to take that from him?

I mean, why dont we all just cut off /out our gentials for fear of AIDS and STDs? That would solve the problem, no? Sometimes the logic people use to convince themselves of something really surprises me.....

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As a Mom-to-be, I am still on the fence about this. Yes, my other two sons are uncircumcized and one wishes he had been. Everytime I read things like this it goes further toward no circumcision. I was interested in seeing the pictures so I know what kinds of things to look for if, and that's a big if, I decide to go this way. but, the pictures wouldn't come up, it said page not found. Is there a way you can provide a link to the blog for reference?

tvccrn

shoot! let me look for it!

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As a Mom-to-be, I am still on the fence about this. Yes, my other two sons are uncircumcized and one wishes he had been. Everytime I read things like this it goes further toward no circumcision. I was interested in seeing the pictures so I know what kinds of things to look for if, and that's a big if, I decide to go this way. but, the pictures wouldn't come up, it said page not found. Is there a way you can provide a link to the blog for reference?

tvccrn

VERY graphic and disturbing

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/asaasaHayden11106155.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/Hayden11106155.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/hollywoodz_horror/Hayden11106156.jpg

lets see if this one works...

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one more and then I'll leave it alone because the entire issue raises by BP.

"I think this child has an infected member after neonatal circumcision;" Fournier's gangrene.

6 day old baby with infection from circ and the horrifying consequences

very graphic.

OB nurses also tell me that these types of problems happen much more frequently than the public is aware of.

complications of circumcisions

Circumcision Complications

Okay, also here is a teen forum where teen males are discussing being circumcised or not, yes there are some post with the same ole misconceptions and myths & some who are claim they are glad they are circed, BUT there are many who aren't circed and GLAD they werent and there are some that are circed and WISH THEY HADN'T BEEN. Just thought it was interesting to hear from totally anonymous population of teen males

Student Center Forums, student.com forums, teen forums, teen boards, Puberty, Circumcise (Males Only)

I like what one guy wrote at the bottom of his post on the bottom of the first page:

Finally, an educated post. Circumcised men feel the need to circumcise their sons because they were circumcised. Thank God my dad is a doctor, he knew better.

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Specializes in MICU.

We are really mixing up to issues here: routine infant circumcision in our culture and whether circumcision can help stop HIV infx in Africa.

If circumcision can really help (and I have serious issues with this study), why not let the men make an informed decision when they are old enough to be sexually active? Why do they HAVE to circumcise infants? Circ can be presented as another way to protect themselves (IF it's true), like condoms. I think it's flying off the handle a little to start routinely circing infants in Africa to someday keep them from spreading HIV.

I didn't circ my son, and I'm glad I didn't. But if he grows up and decides to have it done, then I'd respect that decision.

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Specializes in Community, OB, Nursery.

Very interesting, the teenage boys' forum. Mine is only 2yo and I guess he would say the advantage to being uncut right now is that it gives him a game to play in the bath: "On/Off." You figure it out.;)

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i understand what you mean about having your bp go up! i can't even bring myself to watch them...one time was enough for me. for those who have never seen one, please watch it. i think it's so important for everyone to know what can and does happen to these babies.

also, to the mom sitting on the fence unsure what to do. i understand how you feel. i was in your shoes with my first pg. i literally agonized over what to do, mainly, because it is so ingrained in our culture that it's the right thing to do, and that your child will have all kinds of horrible infections if you leave them intact. i actually had some elderly friends of my aunt's say, "why would she do that?" they thought i was crazy not to circ. the problem is, there is so much misinformation out there about the care of the intact member. many things a doc tells parents to do actually cause more problems.

my son is 4 and has never had a problem. i never retracted it and let him do it himself. retracting it before it's ready causes all kinds of tiny tears, which later get infected. we are so obsessed in this culture with being clean. just like the self cleaning lady parts (you wash the outside, but don't go up in the canal) the member is the same way. it is self cleaning. once the foreskin is ready to retract easily, then it can be cleaned inside. ironically, docs who are not "intact friendly" and who don't understand how to properly care for the uncirc'd member, tell parent to retract and clean them. when infections set in the myth of intact boys = problems/infections sets in, and the parents feel they did the wrong thing. it is a vicious cycle.

i'm not sure if you're worried, because your son may feel different from the one who is circ'd? but i use this as an opportunity to tell my son it's more than ok to be different. we should always be teaching this to our kids, and this is just another way to do it. the other day my son wanted to know what was inside the foreskin. i told him it's the top of you member, and that is the foreskin and it protects your member. i told him not every boy has that covering, but we wanted you to keep yours. he just said, "ok."

there is a wonderful site that has great info on the child's intact member and how to care for it. if you have trouble reading it, click on the little magnifying glass above and it will zoom in to the print. i have to tell you, i am so glad i left my boys intact. i just know i did the right thing for them. if you want to chat about it, i guess there is a pm feature here? i'm sorry, i'm not really sure. i haven't been here that long. :)

national organization of circumcision information resource centers

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wow. this thread got quiet real quick!

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