Surrendering a single state license- ramifications to keeping other licenses?

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I am in my state’s assistance program for mental health issues that culminated in diversion, and am listed on the National Practitioners Database, I hold MN and CA licenses, too, but plan on surrendering CA. Since one desperate act has unlocked so many levels of hell as far as consenquences, I’m going to guess that doing so will affect keeping my compact and MN licenses? Like I’ll have to fly to the moon and obtain the virgin blood of the 5th grey stone every time I renew? Or they won’t allow me to renew? 
Anyone ever surrendered one license but tried to keep others?

stellar career up to the point of insanity, for what it’s worth.

On 8/3/2022 at 1:35 PM, solarex said:

Very true and great point.  A suspended license will get you in the national databank, but overwhelmingly NOT likely to get you into the State Medicaid/Medicare Exclusion Database or the Federal Office of Inspector General Exclusion Database.  If you were entered into a State Exclusion Database or the Federal Database for a suspended license, this is generally removable immediately when your licensed is reinstated and you are put back on probation by the nurse board, BUT..........Here is the danger....When you have a revoked nursing license or when you Surrender your nursing license, it's nearly automatic.  The odds of going into a State Database with a surrendered nursing license is about 75%, and here is the problem.  The Nurse Board recommends to the State Medicaid/Department of Health how long you should be excluded for, and this exclusion is generally no less than 3 years, and usually with a surrendered license, 5 years.  Once that recommendation is received and you are entered into that State's Exclusion Database, that State automatically (by law) has to report you to the OIG (Federal Database) and the Federal OIG exclusion database takes the recommendations from the state on the length of exclusion of which you will have a 5 year exclusion and getting off it it is incredibly difficult before that 5 year mark.  This is why you never surrender you license.  Surrendering a license is basically like having a Revoked license in the eyes of Medicaid/Medicare State and OIG Exclusion Federal Database.

Even if your license is intact in your home state and you are working well through recovery, the state that you surrendered your license to across the country will likely catch up to you and once you are in the OIG Database, you aren't working anywhere in the medical field, period.  Check this out, with the Nursy's system when you apply to work somewhere, the employer also check's each state's Medicaid Exclusion Database to ensure you are not on it, because sometimes a nurse can be on a State Exclusion Database, but not on the Federal OIG Database, but employers will quickly terminate you because they expect that state to report it to the Feds, and they anticipate that it will be a matter of time before you are on the OIG Federal Database.

Never surrender your license, ever!  For criminal CONVICTIONS where you plead guilty for a felony, it's an automatic 5 year exclusion minimum and often 10 years.  What I am getting at is this.... there are many nurses who do well in recover and they recover and are able to practice and go back into nursing, but the decision to surrender their license in another state basically ends their career.  In order to overcome it, forget about 5 year monitoring program, think in terms of like 7.5 years.  2.5 to 3 years before you can work again and the time to get off the exclusion list, then the Nurse Board starts your 5 year clock for monitoring, and during those first 2.5 or 3 years, you aren't working in nursing, so right off the bat a financial issue is there.  Most nurses will not wait it out 7.5 years.  Again, NEVER surrender your license.

Do you have an email to talk ?

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On 8/3/2022 at 1:35 PM, solarex said:

Very true and great point.  A suspended license will get you in the national databank, but overwhelmingly NOT likely to get you into the State Medicaid/Medicare Exclusion Database or the Federal Office of Inspector General Exclusion Database.  If you were entered into a State Exclusion Database or the Federal Database for a suspended license, this is generally removable immediately when your licensed is reinstated and you are put back on probation by the nurse board, BUT..........Here is the danger....When you have a revoked nursing license or when you Surrender your nursing license, it's nearly automatic.  The odds of going into a State Database with a surrendered nursing license is about 75%, and here is the problem.  The Nurse Board recommends to the State Medicaid/Department of Health how long you should be excluded for, and this exclusion is generally no less than 3 years, and usually with a surrendered license, 5 years.  Once that recommendation is received and you are entered into that State's Exclusion Database, that State automatically (by law) has to report you to the OIG (Federal Database) and the Federal OIG exclusion database takes the recommendations from the state on the length of exclusion of which you will have a 5 year exclusion and getting off it it is incredibly difficult before that 5 year mark.  This is why you never surrender you license.  Surrendering a license is basically like having a Revoked license in the eyes of Medicaid/Medicare State and OIG Exclusion Federal Database.

Even if your license is intact in your home state and you are working well through recovery, the state that you surrendered your license to across the country will likely catch up to you and once you are in the OIG Database, you aren't working anywhere in the medical field, period.  Check this out, with the Nursy's system when you apply to work somewhere, the employer also check's each state's Medicaid Exclusion Database to ensure you are not on it, because sometimes a nurse can be on a State Exclusion Database, but not on the Federal OIG Database, but employers will quickly terminate you because they expect that state to report it to the Feds, and they anticipate that it will be a matter of time before you are on the OIG Federal Database.

Never surrender your license, ever!  For criminal CONVICTIONS where you plead guilty for a felony, it's an automatic 5 year exclusion minimum and often 10 years.  What I am getting at is this.... there are many nurses who do well in recover and they recover and are able to practice and go back into nursing, but the decision to surrender their license in another state basically ends their career.  In order to overcome it, forget about 5 year monitoring program, think in terms of like 7.5 years.  2.5 to 3 years before you can work again and the time to get off the exclusion list, then the Nurse Board starts your 5 year clock for monitoring, and during those first 2.5 or 3 years, you aren't working in nursing, so right off the bat a financial issue is there.  Most nurses will not wait it out 7.5 years.  Again, NEVER surrender your license.

Do you have experience with this? Can you reach out if you do? With state exclusion? 

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Hi does anyone know if you can be a science/biology teacher with BSN degree without having nursing license in Alabama? Are they tied together in any way? Thanks 

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Specializes in Mental health, Critical Care, Nurse Educator du.

If you can help it, do not give up your California license. This is the hardest one to get, and ultimately can be used as an endorsement to get licensed in any other state. 

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Quickstepper said:

If you can help it, do not give up your California license. This is the hardest one to get, and ultimately can be used as an endorsement to get licensed in any other state. 

Do not EVER surrender ANY state license. It's not about 'California". It's about the Federal Government. When u surrender a license in ANY state, you are highly likely to end up on the Federal Government OIG department list which is 5 years long. When u get on this list, it doesn't matter if the State Board of Nursing says you are good to go. You still can't practice as the Federal Government now has say so and you can't practice ANYWHERE that has Medicare or Medicaid patients. That means......you pretty much can't practice anywhere. More careers end from nurses surrendering their licenses than they do using substances and they have zero idea of the consequences the majority of the time.

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Tampa Two said:

     I can testify to surrending a license and ending a career.  I'm now a Physican's Assistant and I also teach at a Community College in Virginia in an ADN program for anatomy and physiology.  In 2008, I was licensed in Virginia, Wyoming, and Texas.  Virginia my home state and I was an ICU nurse.  I devloped substance abuse and diverted from my work in Virginia and got caught.  My license suspended for 1 year in Virginia with 5 year monitoring program/agreement, and suspended in Wyoming a year, and in Texas, they offered me a consent order which was 5 years of monitoring and requirements with their own program in order to keep my license even when I lived in Virginia.  I would have had to check in 2 times daily and take drugs tests not just for VA, but in a separate system for Texas and do weekly meetings for Texas in addition to my home state of VA.  I surrended my RN license to TX.  Didn't want the hassle.

In a year, I return to work in Virginia in the ICU as my same hospital who gave me a chance.  I was in Virginia's monitoring program and doing well in recovery.  3 months into my job, my manager and human resources call me in and tell me I am on Office of Inspector General's Exclusion List.  They put me on leave without pay and gave me 90 days to get off of the list to keep my job.  I made calls to Texas and the Federal Medicare Offices and got an attorney.  The exclusion was a 5 year mandatory for surrending my licence in Texas.  Even though my Virginia license was now intact, I could not get off the list until 5 years were up (and I had a lawyer in this area well skilled).  My career in nursing ended that day.  Virginia said I could remain in their monitoring program for the remaning 3 years and 9 months, but when/if I went back to work as a nurse in 3 years and 9 months (when I came off the exclusion list) that I would have to have an additional 2 years of monitoring as a nurse, because to pass the 5 year monitoring program, I had to be monitored while working as a nurse for at least 3 of those 5 years.  Also, I would have to have retraining when I came back to work in 3 years and 9 months because I would have been out of nursing so long.  My career in nursing ended that day.  There was nowhere to work.  Nowhere to practice.  Basically all healthcare jobs in nursing are tied to Medicaid or Medicare and the only place I could have worked would have been a testosterone clinic which were not around at that time, and the jobs are scarce, and they wouldn't hire a nurse in recovery anyway.

I applied for PA school and started a year later.  I graduated PA school with 4 months left until my Federal Office of Inspector General Exclusion was removed.  I went to work 10 days after the exclusion was lifted, but had to wait 4 months after graduating PA school just to work as a PA.  The OIG Exclusion list is a very scary and very real thing, and I was put on it and my career in nursing over because I surrendered a license in a state in which I never lived or never practiced and was half way across the country from Virginia.  Interestingly, I never was placed on the Virginia Medicaid or Wyoming Medicaid Exclusion lists for what I had done, even though my licenses were suspended in both states and I was publically reprimanded, but Texas put me on their State Medicaid Exclusion List for 5 years, and it took about 10 months later for me to reach the Federal Office of Inspector General Exclusion Database (which came from Texas) and that exclusion was 5 years with no way to get off it, even with an intact license in Virginia and showing progress in recovery and doing well and even back to work!

I agree with the one poster on the dangers of surrending a license.  You may get away with it, but I can attest to the fact that you are playing with fire.

Did you have any problem getting your PA license or jobs as a PA with the history of surrendering a license? Did you complete the VA monitoring program? Also wondering if you have to answer yes to questions on applications that ask if you have every been investigated or had restrictions on a license by any state licensing agency and if that has caused you any problems in getting jobs.

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sch76 said:

Did you have any problem getting your PA license or jobs as a PA with the history of surrendering a license? Did you complete the VA monitoring program? Also wondering if you have to answer yes to questions on applications that ask if you have every been investigated or had restrictions on a license by any state licensing agency and if that has caused you any problems in getting jobs.

You missed the part of this thread about the word "Surrender." With all due respect, re-read it. Never, ever, ever, never,never Surrender a Nursing License in ANY state. It's a DISASTER. Unless you are multi millionaire and don't have to work, that's the only time to surrender, or if you arr oldsr and retirong and don't give a care aboit sorking anymore.

Surrendered License means you automatically go on your state Medicaid debarment list which means you will then go on the US Government-Federal Office of Inspector General Exclusion list. This means, you can't work in ANY state with ANYthing to do with Healthcare. Want to be a janitor at a hospital? You can't do that. Want to be a cook? You can't do that at the hospital. Want to take a new course like Radiology or some other Healthcare profession? Well, you can't get a license and you still can't work in Healthcare in ANY state on the Fedsral OIG list until you get off of it which takes about 7 years for a Surrendered License. Want to go into real estate or be an aesthetician? You can't get a license.

Surrendering your license doesn't just effect you from not working in the Healthcare field, it can literally cripple your ability to work in other fields. Want to be a school teacher? You can't get your states certification license because you Surrendered a state license in another area. Am I being dramatic about Surrendering a license? I hope I am, because the amount of drama you have now will increase by 100 percent. I can't be any more clear. Do NOT ever surrender a nursing license or you will pay a massive, massive cost that is so life changing that for some people who do, it eventually contributes to taking their life. Hope I'm clear.

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Hi, 

I am not asking about surrendering a license, I do understand the ramifications of that. I am asking if he had problems getting his license as a PA due to him having the history of surrendering a license.  Wondering if he had problems getting a job as a PA with having done the monitoring program and having to answer that he had been investigated by any state licensing agency. He said he surrendered and then went to PA school and was able to get that license and get a job - I am just wondering if he had trouble getting through HR and credentialing departments with that on his file.

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sch76 said:

Hi, 

I am not asking about surrendering a license, I do understand the ramifications of that. I am asking if he had problems getting his license as a PA due to him having the history of surrendering a license.  Wondering if he had problems getting a job as a PA with having done the monitoring program and having to answer that he had been investigated by any state licensing agency. He said he surrendered and then went to PA school and was able to get that license and get a job - I am just wondering if he had trouble getting through HR and credentialing departments with that on his file.

1. I understand. I can answer your question from the Advanced Practice Nursing Side.  On average, after you are done with monitoring, you will have trouble getting a job at 2 out of 10 places.  Basically, about 20% of employers are turned off "forever" no matter how long your past is.  80% don't care as long as your monitoring is over and your license is restored to normal.  

2.  Sorry to be so aggressive with "Surrendering."  I had 2 friends take their own lives which basically stemmed from the complications of surrendering their license.  If you surrender a license, the General Debarment is 7 years, BUT.........if you complete a monitoring program in some form, whether it's a court or for another healthcare profession, etc, you can not just get your Surrendered License Reinstated after the 5 years of monitoring, but you also get off of the Debarment List 2 years early at the 5 year mark.

3.  The PA scenario is not terribly uncommon.  I can give you an example of 2 people that were nurses and surrendered their licenses.  They were immediately on the OIG list within a couple of months and given a 7 year debarment.  They went to Medical School.  They told the medical school about their background and were in a monitoring program from the Medical Board while they were in Medical School.  Upon graduating medical school 4 years later, they got their Medical Licenses with the Board of Medicine, but the BOM told them they still had to do one more year of monitoring for their first year as a Physician (Doctor) to complete the 5 years, BUT......they did get their Medical Licenses when they graduated Medical School and immediately applied to be taken off the OIG List and they were removed.  

4.  The problem with nurses who surrender is that upon surrender, the BON puts a 5 year requirement on them.  Meaning, the BON doesn't even allow them to apply for reinstatement in many cases.....for 5 years, so the nurse can't even do a nurse monitoring program during that 5 year period because they are technically no longer a nurse.  The people that kind of get around this are the ones' who change professions like PA or Medical School, but these people are fortunate.  Both of them I know had husbands that made good money, so the families didn't miss the pay, and the nurses didn't have to work.  Most aren't that fortunate.

5.  Yes, for ANY credentialing committee in the Health Care Field including Medicine, Nursing, PA, etc, for the rest of your life, you have to answer honestly to the question about your credentials being revoked and to your license being surrendered, suspended, etc.  Again, 80% of employers do NOT care once you are done with monitoring and your license is back to normal. 

 

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