SEIU Vote at Ohio Catholic Healthcare Partners

justice4peace · Mar 20, 2008

On the contrary---CNA/NNOC is NOT run by bedside RN's. Rose DiMoro (sp?) is NOT a nurse. She was NOT elected by the rank and file--but, rather, she was a grocery clerk or bagger who worked her way up through the labor movement and was APPOINTED to her position.
The purpose of this method of union elections was NOT to force information onto the employees--RN's included. That gets so ugly. Rather, the employees were given two toll-free numbers--one for the union and one for management--that they could call and get the information they needed to make an INTELLIGENT decision on their own. What CNA did was disrupt that legal process.
There is no excuse--only justifications and rationalizations.

HobbesRN,

It is clear by your posts that you have been involved with this process from the beginning so your opinion on the matter is very slanted. I feel that unionization of nurses is long overdue but to have SEIU represent nurses does not make sense. Nurses need to band together and support one another instead of continuing to tear one another down. That is exactly why we are still debating the same issues over and over and over. If these elections were on the up and up then why did SEIU and CHP call them off? NNOC/CNA did not call off the election process. Why are you continuing with this "Shoot the Messenger" mentality? Open, fair and honest elections are what this country is supposed to be about. If your hospital and SEIU were so interested in the rights of your nurses then they wouldn't be afraid of full disclosure of information from all sides. From your profile I see that you have been an ER nurse for 36 years. Surely you can not tell me with your vast experience that you believe that hospital administration has EVER had your (nurses) best interests at heart. If that was the case then we wouldn't even be having a discussion such as this one. Nurses would be treated fairly and patients would be receiving safe, excellent care.

HobbesRN · Mar 20, 2008

HobbesRN,
It is clear by your posts that you have been involved with this process from the beginning so your opinion on the matter is very slanted. I feel that unionization of nurses is long overdue but to have SEIU represent nurses does not make sense. Nurses need to band together and support one another instead of continuing to tear one another down. That is exactly why we are still debating the same issues over and over and over. If these elections were on the up and up then why did SEIU and CHP call them off? NNOC/CNA did not call off the election process. Why are you continuing with this "Shoot the Messenger" mentality? Open, fair and honest elections are what this country is supposed to be about. If your hospital and SEIU were so interested in the rights of your nurses then they wouldn't be afraid of full disclosure of information from all sides. From your profile I see that you have been an ER nurse for 36 years. Surely you can not tell me with your vast experience that you believe that hospital administration has EVER had your (nurses) best interests at heart. If that was the case then we wouldn't even be having a discussion such as this one. Nurses would be treated fairly and patients would be receiving safe, excellent care.

Dear Justice4peace-

Thanks for your response-but know I am not 'tearing anyone down'. When I addressed Rose Ann DeMoro's credentialing, I should have written that she must possess a great work ethic. She wouldn't have accomplished so much had she not been a shrewd, self-motivated individual--to be a grocery clerk/bagger and work her way up through the labor movement to become president of a nurses' professional organization.

NNOC/CNA were not in a position to call off the elections. They had no legal involvement in that election. To achieve that end, they employed union-busting activities --much to the dismay of many CHP employees--nurses and otherwise--who had worked SO hard to get to that point. But, they can speak for themselves, and it may give you a little insight into the true facts of this debacle.

Please don't mistake this as a 'shoot the messenger mentality'. In the spirit of full disclosure, and, unlike other posters on this blog, I am not an employee of either CNA/NNOC or SEIU. Things I have stated on this blog are not theories or speculations. I have personal knowledge that SEIU is very capable of representing registered nurses, as I am a registered nurse in Ohio, represented by SEIU and employed by CHP. I actively participated in the organization process that we undertook over 10 years ago. I have sat at the table with the administration of CHP and their designees during contract negotiations. Under SEIU tutelage, our contracts have improved over the years--and will continue to improve. I am not implying that CNA/NNOC cannot negotiate a decent contract---but, they have not done the groundwork that SEIU did to get to that agreement with CHP to make way for union elections to be held. In reality, it was work we ALL did to get that election. CNA/NNOC have employed union-busting to disrupt that legal process. No rationalization can justify what they did.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion--and I respect that you have your opinion. This is my opinion--and I have it because of my personal experience with SEIU and CHP. :twocents:

barbikins · Mar 22, 2008

RoseAnn Demoro is the (wonderful ) Executive Director of CNA/NNOC, executive being the operative word in her job description. She executes the will of the House of Delegates and the CNA/NNOC board, elected by the membership and headed by our elected council of Presidents all direct care RNs, like our membership. We are a truly democratic organization, with a bottom up, rather than a top down model. Every member is quickly made to realize that he/she is the union and to that end al communication and information sharing is vital to our process. Our members (like those at CHP) would never tolerate being told that information was disruptive. Our members work hard collectively and in their facilities and together we have created model contacts, have made retirement something that can now happen with security for nurses and fought for legislation that makes our patients safer and improves working conditions. Because of the work CNA/NNOC has done, young people are once again looking at nursing as a career.

micurn55 · Mar 23, 2008

Barbikins, check out the post at the top of this page! Clearly you are biased in favor of Roseann Demoro and the CNA/NNOC. I can tell you for sure that young people in Ohio are NOT more likely to look at nursing as a career as a result of work done by the CNA. CNA's accomplishments in Ohio, by my research:

1) Busting the union at approx 10 CHP hospitals throughout the state.

2) Making a big fuss over a ratios bill that has no chance of passing our Republican legislature.

3) Collecting money from nurses who send them checks and are called "members," who do not get a union in return.

Chico David, BSN, RN · Mar 24, 2008

Since we seem to have multiple threads here started for the sole purpose of attacking CNA/NNOC, I'll just add the same questions I keep posting and never yet have seen anyone even attempt to respond to:

1. If these elections had so much support, why was it so very easy to stop them? SEIU in other places has come in and attacked CNA/NNOC and tried to disrupt our elections. It makes very little difference and they always end up slinking away since we have done the hard work to build support. Why was this so fragile that a handful of activists passing out a few flyers blew it up?

My answer: because this deal couldn't stand the light of day.

2. What exactly was it about a little free debate that made it impossible to hold the election?

I'll throw in another question for free: Why did the election have to be done in such a hurry - only about 10 days from announcement to vote instead of the usual 42? Could it be that the goal was to rush nurses to a decision before they had a chance to think about it?

Come on folks - humor me - at least make a stab at answering those questions.

SEIU PSYCH RN · Mar 24, 2008

ohio rns are being denied a choice for union representation
nine hospitals operated by catholic healthcare partners in ohio are delivering their registered nurses to the service employees international union (seiu) by holding uncontested union elections on march 12-14.
these rns did not ask to be represented by seiu. they did not even know an election was being held until two weeks ago when they received a letter signed by both hospital management and the union. the nurses are not being given the opportunity to choose a professional nurses' union, such as the ohio nurses association, which would truly represent their interests. less than 2% of seiu members are rns.
suggested message
to: catholic health association, u.s. conference of catholic bishops there is a crisis in the state of ohio that demands your attention. the registered nurses at nine ohio hospitals, operated by the catholic healthcare partners, are in effect being forced into the service employees international union, a trade union that will not adequately represent their interests. they did not ask to be represented by this union and are not being given the opportunity to choose a professional nurses' union. the nurses at these hospitals did not even know there would be a union election until two weeks ago, when they received a letter signed by the chp and seiu. less than 2% of seiu members are registered nurses. rns unionize to improve patient care through contracts that ensure safe staffing and promote recruitment and retention of nurses. to achieve these goals, they need a professional nurses' union. as organizations that support the rights of workers across the world, i find it hard to believe that the catholic health association or the u.s. conference of catholic bishops would support this plan. i urge you to use your voice and your influence to allow the registered nurses in ohio to have a genuine choice about who represents them. [/b]ohio rns are being denied a choice for union representation

help protect the rights of ohio rns to choose the union that will best represent them. the accompanying message can be used in e-mails of support.

copy (or cut and paste) the suggested message content for your correspondence, and customize as desired. the messages will be forwarded to the catholic health association, the u.s. conference of catholic bishops, and ohio nurses.

please spread the word! we have only a few short days to turn this around!

wile only 2% of seiu are rn's over 1 million are healty care workers and seiu represents more rn's than cna about 85,000 to 70,000.

SEIU PSYCH RN · Mar 24, 2008

RNs decision making skills are proven every day at the bedside. CNA/NNOC is an organization that is run by bedside RNs who have to make educated decisions as to how to protect and advance our profession. As we all know, you need information in order to make a decision. SEIU underestimated RNs by assuming that they wouldn't be insulted by a deal made behind their backs that prevents them from getting information about what they are supposed to be voting on. We didn't sign an agreement with management placing a gag order on ourselves, so we were free to hand out information, which we did. SEIU claims that the conditions for an election were "poisoned" since RNs received information. As a nurse, I am insulted by this. RNs are intelligent and can receive information from both sides and make an educated decision. I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment that if nurses thought that it was a bad deal they could have just voted no. By providing information, we did not prevent an election -- SEIU would have to answer to that , since they called off the election. CNA/NNOC is a national association and this came about because of the work that CNA was doing for nurses and patients in California, Nurses across the country wanted what California had and so the NNOC was born. It was developed by the board with the approval of the membership, we all believe that nurses everywhere need support and union that fights for them and helps them fight for their patients not the hospitals bottom line. Barbikins RN

If Cna is a National organization as you claim please inform me of a single contract or nurse represented not a voluntary member that they represent anywhere in the state of Ohio

SEIU PSYCH RN · Mar 24, 2008

CHP has adopted a strategy to silence RNs and deny you a democratic choice.
CHP has signed an illegal back room deal with the Service Employees Union (SEIU) intended to force RNs into this non-RN union.
The elections scheduled for March 12-14 will not give you a choice of a professional nurses union....
... The only union CHP is letting you vote for is the union hand-picked by Catholic Healthcare Partners, the non-RN Service Employees Union. Millions of Ohioans had a choice of Presidential candidates to vote for
on March 4.
Why shouldn't Ohio RNs have a choice of which union you want to represent you?CHP RNs deserve a REAL choice.
CHP RNs deserve to decide for yourselves what union you want to represent you, not have your union hand-picked by your employer. Why should the hospital choose YOUR union?
CHP RNs deserve to be part of a professional RN union, not a Service Employees union.
http://www.calnurses.org/nnoc/ohio/rns-for-democracy/
Some Facts: http://www.calnurses.org/nnoc/ohio/rns-for-democracy/facts.html

Non Rn union SEIU represents more Rn's across the country than CNA does approximately 85,000 to 70,000

RN Power Ohio · Mar 24, 2008

Non Rn union SEIU represents more Rn's across the country than CNA does approximately 85,000 to 70,000

Not correct check your figures. After PASNAP joined CNA/NNOC has the largest RN representation in the country.

HobbesRN · Mar 24, 2008

Since we seem to have multiple threads here started for the sole purpose of attacking CNA/NNOC, I'll just add the same questions I keep posting and never yet have seen anyone even attempt to respond to:
1. If these elections had so much support, why was it so very easy to stop them? SEIU in other places has come in and attacked CNA/NNOC and tried to disrupt our elections. It makes very little difference and they always end up slinking away since we have done the hard work to build support. Why was this so fragile that a handful of activists passing out a few flyers blew it up?
My answer: because this deal couldn't stand the light of day.
2. What exactly was it about a little free debate that made it impossible to hold the election?
I'll throw in another question for free: Why did the election have to be done in such a hurry - only about 10 days from announcement to vote instead of the usual 42? Could it be that the goal was to rush nurses to a decision before they had a chance to think about it?
Come on folks - humor me - at least make a stab at answering those questions.

Here ya go-

This thread actually started out crucifying SEIU and has flourished with distortion of facts.

1. Usually union elections are made or broken on fear-mongering, innuendo and twisted facts. I know because I was subjected to CHP's union-busting tactics when we successfully organized. It was a long, drawn-out, emotional campaign but we prevailed--by adhering to labor law and behaving responsibly. Our organizers from SEIU educated us in that process. Our co-workers saw that--and have subsequently grown to realize SEIU represented themselves and all of us with integrity. Again, this is knowledge gleaned from experience.

Anyone can say anything--fact or fiction--and make it believable. You have admitted campaigning for CNA, so you've participated in labor campaigns. Therefore, you, too, have personal knowledge of such campaigns and KNOW these elections by their very nature are 'fragile' and are foiled by doubt and bolstered by knowledge. CNA planted that seed of doubt when they claimed they were a UNION and urged workers to vote 'NO' for a union.

2. Timing is EVERYTHING. This was a well-publicized SEIU campaign for CHP workers. Instead of coming in early enough to actually educate, CNA presented themselves three days before the scheduled elections to plant the seed of doubt and disrupt the election process. They were the Ralph Nader of these RN union elections and a total spoiler for the other non-RN workers! This wasn't rocket science. It's not that hard to do....and it's unethical. This 'deal' is an NLRB sanctioned means of organizing--and employed by CNA's buddies, UHW and lots of other union organizing efforts. It's OK for them--and it would be OK for CNA if they had done the leg-work to get to the election. CNA timed their onslaught of flyers and conflicting information so there was NO TIME for free debate.

This process--10 days to the election--gave the workers time to do the research and ask questions. It's legal--and one of several ways for workers to organize. The goal was to avoid the emotional and exhausting employer vs. union campaigns of the past. It would give the workers a non-threatening venue to find the answers to questions they may have. They were given toll-free numbers for both CHP management and SEIU to ask questions. This was not a 'back door deal' (again, a moniker anyone could use--doesn't make it valid but assigns a distasteful opinion to a legitimate process)

I'm sure CNA/NNOC can go out and find thousands of nurses that need their help and assistance in organizing. Most of us are on the same page-- that nurses need to be unionized to gain, among other things, job security, safe practice standards for their patients and respect from their employers. We share common goals for our fellow nurses--and healthcare workers in general. There's lots of actual work to be done in that arena, but it's work and not the relatively easy job of union busting. :nurse:

allnurses Guide · Mar 28, 2008

quiet deal leads to bitter fight in ohio hospitals

http://labornotes.org/node/1582

Chico David, BSN, RN · Mar 28, 2008

quiet deal leads to bitter fight in ohio hospitals
http://labornotes.org/node/1582[/quote]
for those who have not seen it, i would call this article a pretty balanced report of the obviously controversial event. it gives both sides the opportunity to express their feelings and make points and adds some nuance. overall, pretty good journalism.
labor notes itself is a publication generally devoted to the idea of union democracy and generally negative about partnerships and the kind of concessionary bargaining we've seen from uaw and other major unions in recent years. supports class-struggle unionism.