what is scoop on section w, question 1?

Specialties MDS

Published

Hello all!

Can I get some opinions on section w, question 1; the National Provider ID? Our software pulls this information in automatically, so I do not need to do anything with it, it is always there on each and every mds. One of the mds coordinators in another facility with in the "chain" of SNFs wants to stop using it because it is optional. (Yes, it does say that it is optional in the RAI) I say it is not hurting anything, it imports automatically - leave it there and move on to something more important, but now this coordinator has corporate looking into it and making a mountain out of a molehill. The mds software does not allow for it to be left blank, the programmers would need to rewrite the code to change the way this is looked at by the software - this tiny little thing has turned into a pain in the neck! I would just like to see if other facilities are completing this field or leaving it blank. Thanks for your input!

Lori

Talino

1,010 Posts

Specializes in ER CCU MICU SICU LTC/SNF.

'am not aware of it still being optional since implementation (large facilites - 5/23/07, small - 5/23/08). this is what the rai says...

coding: when the npi is available, enter the 10-digit npi in the spaces provided. the npi has no embedded dashes or spaces. recheck the number to ensure you have entered the 10 digits correctly. the facility is encouraged to begin using this number once it has obtained it.

once the facility's npi had been used on previous transactions, it cannot be left blank by default otherwise the submission will be rejected. if you had left this blank on a previous submission without a problem is because the software automatically populated this field, as it does with aa6a&b state/federal no.

unless by "optional" you mean completing the mds in paper form?

then i concur, continually writing down the npi is inefficient. since the software automatically fills it in when the mds is entered into the computer, leave it blank. however, i would include a statement in the policy "section xyz, items 123 are automatically filled by the software and do not need to be entered in the hardcopy". this will at least placate a surveyor's argument about the rn signing r2b when the npi is still blank.

LoriAHS

4 Posts

What about the update?

"Information About Assessments and Section W Requirements.

  • Section W - is included on all assessments with an assessment reference date (A3a) on or after October 1, 2005, all discharge tracking forms with a discharge date (R4) on or after October 1, 2005 and all reentry tracking forms with a reentry date (A4a) on or after October 1, 2005. However, not all Section W fields are required at all times. Below is a breakdown that explains what fields in Section W are required with each Reason for Assessment (RFA) in Section A, item 8.
  • W1: National Provider ID: An Optional Data Item Assessments RFA (Reason For Assessment, Section A, item 8) 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 10 and 00 - W1 is optional on all assessments with an assessment reference date (A3a) on or after October 1, 2005
  • Discharge Tracking Forms (RFA 06, 07, 08) - W1 is optional on all discharge tracking forms with a discharge date (R4) on or after October 1, 2005.
  • Reentry Tracking Forms (RFA 09) - W1 is optional on all reentry tracking forms with a reentry date (A4a) on or after October 1, 2005. "

poohmdsnurse

49 Posts

Ours here is pulled to it and I leave it alone... Again as stated if I were to remove it- it would be a BIG pain in the butt and it wouldn't pass audit nor be accepted by state

Talino

1,010 Posts

Specializes in ER CCU MICU SICU LTC/SNF.
what about the update?

"information about assessments and section w requirements.

  • section w - is included on all assessments with an assessment reference date (a3a) on or after october 1, 2005, all discharge tracking forms with a discharge date (r4) on or after october 1, 2005 and all reentry tracking forms with a reentry date (a4a) on or after october 1, 2005. however, not all section w fields are required at all times. below is a breakdown that explains what fields in section w are required with each reason for assessment (rfa) in section a, item 8.
  • w1: national provider id: an optional data item assessments rfa (reason for assessment, section a, item 8) 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 10 and 00 - w1 is optional on all assessments with an assessment reference date (a3a) on or after october 1, 2005
  • discharge tracking forms (rfa 06, 07, 08) - w1 is optional on all discharge tracking forms with a discharge date (r4) on or after october 1, 2005.
  • reentry tracking forms (rfa 09) - w1 is optional on all reentry tracking forms with a reentry date (a4a) on or after october 1, 2005. "

just to clarify - this is not an update. this was posted in the mds frequently asked questions in 09/08/2005 when the entire section w was added into the mds specs in march '05. at that time filling section w1 was optional. the npi became mandatory 2 years later.

LoriAHS

4 Posts

Thank you Talino! Can you point me towards the documentation of when it became mandatory? All I can find is what has already been posted in this thread. I cannot find where it is mandatory.

Talino

1,010 Posts

Specializes in ER CCU MICU SICU LTC/SNF.

This is CMS' NPI page. Click on the Final Rule bottom page 36.

There is also some info here.

LoriAHS

4 Posts

Thank you for your help, is there any documentation you know of that directly addresses the NPI being mandatory in section w, question 1 of mds assessments?

I have read where you could get a fatal error at some point if the NPI in the mds does not match the header NPI, but now they are just warning messages when the two don't match. :bugeyes:

All of the documentation I see on the mandatory use of NPI is in the context of billing procedures. All I can find is the single page where they implement section w effective Oct. 1, 2005 on all assessments and then on the same page they say it is optional on all assessment done on or after Oct. 1, 2005.:banghead:

Does anyone know how to post a question on the CMS site?

+ Add a Comment

By using the site, you agree with our Policies. X