attempt to debunk misperceptions about direct entry

  1. Hello,

    Wow, its hard to believe that I am an academic year away from graduation! It is definately hard yet I know that is true for all entry to nursing programs, (be them ADN, BSN or MSN!)

    Just now I replied to another thread and really liked how simple the reply made the concept of entry to nursing MSN degrees and want to use it as its own post with the header that is above.

    I've encountered so many misperceptions from all varying aspects about these programs. I am not talking about NP programs or Nurse specialists programs nor advanced practice nursing degrees.

    This thread is SOLEY about MSN-entry or Graduate Entry Programs, thank you.

    [paste-my own words]
    Just the other day a University told me that I would not qualify for their post master's certificate program because I will not have a BSN, I didn't bother to share with her the irony, that she was basically saying the equivalent that any BSN student wouldn't qualify for a program that requires an RN because they did not have their ADN first. Your entry to nursing degree is the one where you earn your RN.

    The MSN entry programs are raising the bar on the entry level to practice and I am ALL for it!!! My MSN is not a specialist, just as a BSN isn't specialist either, if I want that then I go for Post Master's certificates, which I intend to do, (multiples yet, not until I am building my clinical proficiency).

    Gen
    [endpaste]

    Hopefully the broader minds will embrace this concept.
    Gen
    Last edit by Gennaver on Sep 11, '06
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    About Gennaver, MSN

    Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 1,668; Likes: 54

    28 Comments

  3. by   catlady
    I'm sorry, but I will never understand how someone with no nursing experience can go to school and somehow be deemed master's-prepared, and a better nurse than someone with years of experience and a somewhat different educational background. Never having approached the bar on entry level to practice, you have no real concept of raising it other than what you've heard from the ivory tower.

    No matter how much anyone tries to justify it, I can't see this as a reasonable response to nursing needs. My mind's plenty broad. It's just not cavernous enough to accept every piece of foolery that's laid across it.
    Last edit by traumaRUs on Sep 12, '06
  4. by   miss print
    Gennaver:

    What does this really mean?

    Does it mean that if you are enrolled in a CNL or general master's direct entry you will have a harder time finding a school to accept you for post-master's training? -perhaps in your case you will have to stay at Depaul in order to obtain further training?

    Does it mean that the direct entry programs where you exit with a master's in a specialization and the ability to practices as an advance practice nurse are "better"?

    It is a double sided sword - this multiple entry into nursing thing-. Especially if some schools don't recognize the work of other programs.

    I found my decision on my direct entry program especially difficult because of your exact situation. Not only did I have to chose a program I felt comfortable with, I had to chose a program that left me with the most options even if it wasn't everything that truly wanted.
  5. by   traumaRUs
    With the direct-entry MSN programs getting lots of publicity, I just have to ask how do these students decide what they want to do? When I went back for my MSN, I had 13 years of nursing experience and even then added a post-MSN certificate in order to get my advanced practice nurse.

    And...do all programs have some work experience time built in? Just curious - thanks for the answers.
  6. by   miss print
    In terms of experience, it varies school to school.

    For direct entry programs where you end up a nurse practitioner:
    The first 15 months is pre-nclex
    then you take the exam
    work full or part time while you finish your master's specialty.

    For direct entry program where you are a nurse generalist with a master's:
    the clinical hours are built into the semester. For example at the university of uiowa during your last semester you work primarily and have 1 or 2 courses while preparing for your boards
  7. by   Gennaver
    [QUOTE=catlady]I'm sorry, but I will never understand how someone with no nursing experience can go to school and somehow be deemed master's-prepared, and a better nurse than someone with years of experience and a somewhat different educational background. Never having approached the bar on entry level to practice, you have no real concept of raising it other than what you've heard from the ivory tower.

    No matter how much anyone tries to justify it, I can't see this as a reasonable response to nursing needs. My mind's plenty broad. It's just not cavernous enough to accept every piece of foolery that's laid across it.

    Hello,

    I imagine that is what ADN prepared RNs said about BSN nurses too.

    Gen
    p.s. it is a hot issue though that is for sure
    Last edit by traumaRUs on Sep 12, '06
  8. by   Gennaver
    Quote from traumaRUs
    With the direct-entry MSN programs getting lots of publicity, I just have to ask how do these students decide what they want to do? When I went back for my MSN, I had 13 years of nursing experience and even then added a post-MSN certificate in order to get my advanced practice nurse.

    And...do all programs have some work experience time built in? Just curious - thanks for the answers.
    Hello TraumaRUs,
    My masters is a generalist, not specialty. Similar to how a BSN would have to go for post bachellor's certificates for ALS and so on.

    Mine is not a specialty or advanced degree, just a master's generalist entry to nursing. [edited to add] Such as the core courses for all Masters regardless of specialty, this is what I am taking, a non specialist MSN/RN.

    Gen
    p.s. I really think the woman who said I couldnt' take her post master's certificate without a BSN was clueless that a Masters entry without a pre-qualifying BSN degree still met the minimum entry to admission for her program but, I didn't feel like wasting my time with her, obviously she had no clue about it
  9. by   Gennaver
    Quote from miss print
    In terms of experience, it varies school to school.

    For direct entry programs where you end up a nurse practitioner:
    The first 15 months is pre-nclex
    then you take the exam
    work full or part time while you finish your master's specialty.

    For direct entry program where you are a nurse generalist with a master's:
    the clinical hours are built into the semester. For example at the university of uiowa during your last semester you work primarily and have 1 or 2 courses while preparing for your boards
    Hello,
    This thread is not about NP entry programs, merely MSN generalist.

    I am attempting to debunk myths and NP entry programs are not the same as MSN to entry programs.

    Gen
  10. by   miss print
    gennaver:

    while i understand your desire to keep this thread on track, i was answering a specific question from trauma "and...do all programs have some work experience time built in? just curious - thanks for the answers"

    and many students considering the msn generalist have undoubtly considered the np entry option as well so there may be some overlap in discussion. i do recognize the difference between the two.

    and for the newbie to this post - they will quickly be able to differentiate between the two entry post/curriculum.

    ---------


    hello,
    this thread is not about np entry programs, merely msn generalist.

    i am attempting to debunk myths and np entry programs are not the same as msn to entry programs.
  11. by   Gennaver
    Quote from miss print

    while i understand your desire to keep this thread on track, ...
    thank you,

    here is a link which goes into detail about generalist masters to entry, although the title itself does mention accelerated bsn's too.

    http://www.aacn.nche.edu/publications/issues/aug02.htm

    i agree that there is so much misinformation and outright fear, (of being threatened) from our future cohorts who do not know what we are learning. the comparison of an adn to bsn isn't really good because i think a bsn is closer to the msn entry than the adn is to a bsn entry.

    gen-but, i am not sure
  12. by   Gennaver
    Quote from traumaRUs
    With the direct-entry MSN programs getting lots of publicity, I just have to ask how do these students decide what they want to do? When I went back for my MSN, I had 13 years of nursing experience and even then added a post-MSN certificate in order to get my advanced practice nurse.

    And...do all programs have some work experience time built in? Just curious - thanks for the answers.
    Hell again TraumaRUS,

    I didn't address this before

    "And...do all programs have some work experience time built in? Just curious - thanks for the answers."

    because it seemed like a question for an NP entry program not a generalist MSN. However I do want to assure you that the generalist MSN does have the pre-NCLEX clinical portion. Just as an ADN has two year's worth pre-NCLEX clinical and the BSN has the junior/senior year two year's worth so too does the generalist master's have two year's clinicals.

    Gen
  13. by   traumaRUs
    Let's keep this thread on target. Generalist MSN entry programs are here and the nursing community needs to decide how to best utilize them.

    Gennaver - I know from other threads that you plan to go into the military after you graduate. However, if you didn't go into the military; then what type of jobs does the generalist-MSN entry prepare you for? Is it any different than a new-grad BSN or new-grad ADN?

    Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm just very curious about this. I truly wish my circumstances had been different and I had been able to do an ADN to MSN, but in the end, I got what I wanted, so it all worked out.

    Thanks...
  14. by   Gennaver
    Quote from traumaRUs
    Let's keep this thread on target. Generalist MSN entry programs are here and the nursing community needs to decide how to best utilize them.

    Gennaver - I know from other threads that you plan to go into the military after you graduate. However, if you didn't go into the military; then what type of jobs does the generalist-MSN entry prepare you for? Is it any different than a new-grad BSN or new-grad ADN?

    Please excuse my ignorance, as I'm just very curious about this. I truly wish my circumstances had been different and I had been able to do an ADN to MSN, but in the end, I got what I wanted, so it all worked out.

    Thanks...

    TaumaRUs,

    Your questions are truly welcomed and respected.

    Since all of us do have individual motivations and hopes post graduation, (again regardless of our degree of entry) there are many options. All new graduate entry MSN/RNs start out just as any new nurse graduate in regards to their need for orientation and preceptorship towards working as a Nurse.

    There is only one MSN entry student that I know personally who has no intention of ever working bedside, her intentions are soley research.

    Just as some hospitals will not hire new grad BSN for ER or Critical Care, some will not hire any new nurse, (MSN either) for those roles. Yet, some will.

    In my case I do hope to both join the military, (and with them my first year minimum will be as a medical surgical bedside nurse before I am eligible to train for Critical Care, Emergency care, Oncology or Perioperative).

    Something that struck me about the "almost" thread hijacking comment earlier is that when I was first working towards the BSN-which I morphed into my pre-reqs for the MSN- I had several nurse coworkers who would often say that the BSN was worthless. Many questioned its worth too stating that "you'll be doing the same job as me but, will be burdened with Charge nurse duties and not get paid for it!"

    Even my own physician asked me why I was going for the MSN entry and I replied that since I was accepted to start the same fall at a two year junior college and the MSN entry that I didn't want to limit myself.

    Here is another link from the AACN on the impact of education on nursing practice:

    http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/FactS...ImpactEdNP.htm

    edited to add: [sorry that I am so wordy in this...the above link is regarding level of education to entry which I am sure is not new to you, the MSN entry follows the same philosophy yet, there is no research for it as with BSN yet]

    Currently I am in the process of trying to write a proposal to research this and to try make a clear focus.

    Just as ADNs and BSNs hope to further their education beyond their degress it is logical to consider that many MSN entry students also want to futher their education too.

    Gen
    Last edit by Gennaver on Sep 12, '06

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