CPR May Kill?! - page 2
Sorry couldn't figure out how to include the link to this, but found it while surfing yahoo. Something to think about anyway. Well-Meaning Paramedics May Kill with CPR -Study Mon Apr 5, 5:54... Read More
Apr 13, '04Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49Quote from happystudent12-20 is normal, though you may see some variations, like 14-20. Still 20 is the high normal.12 to 15 breaths per minute,eh?
The article didnt mention the results c/ 22b/min
Correct me if I am wrong, normal breathing pattern is approx. 18-22, right?
Why would one administer less than that during a code?
Inquiring minds would like to know...........
Apr 13, '04Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49OOPs..sorry for the double post..the page was telling me it wasn't going through!
Apr 13, '04Occupation: Physician Assistant Joined: Jan '04; Posts: 97; Likes: 12Please don't quote me on this, but a listserver I am on had a some posts about this, and what I gained was that if you ventilate too often, the changes in intrathoracic pressure that accompany ventilation can inhibit the artificial circulation you are trying produce.
Apr 13, '04Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 40; Likes: 1Quote from ClimbingNurseJust like the previous poster said, it has to do with intrathoracic pressure..."During CPR, the chest is compressed, which increases pressure inside it and forces blood out of the heart and into the rest of the body. On the upstroke, the chest expands, which creates a slight vacuum inside. The body needs this vacuum for blood in the veins to return to the heart most efficiently. Without it, not as much blood returns to the heart."What does that have to do w/ potentially hyperventilating a Pt? Maybe I'm thick, but that article doesn't make any sense to me.
It seems to me that they are saying that an increased RR during CPR can cause less blood to return to the heart. How are those 2 related?
Is it as simple as not doing compressions and ventilations simultaneously? Is that what they're getting at?
And, yeah, what everyone else said. That's a horrible choice in title. They make it sound like death by CPR is a new sort of medical error. Hardly the case.
So...if you are ventialting too often, that means, there is less opportunity for blood to return to the heart on the upstroke of the compression, ventilation should also be delivered on the upstroke of compression, so I guess that is the correlation, the inflation of the lungs, I believe, also provides a little squeeze and helps blood return to the heart.
Apr 13, '04Occupation: emergency RN Joined: Mar '03; Posts: 833; Likes: 24okay, so what it the correct amount of compression? In the real world......
Apr 13, '04Occupation: RN in Prior Authorization for State Sponsored Business Specialty: Emergency room, med/surg, UR/CSR ; Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 706; Likes: 146it is still 15:2.BTW, thanks for the followup article Gwenith, it said pretty much the same thing the other article says. You know journalists though, they get more readers with an eye catching title like the original was.
I just thought the article in of itself was interesting though. Made me think a little.....although that did hurt some! :chuckle
Apr 13, '04Occupation: returned nurse Joined: Nov '98; Posts: 7,097; Likes: 5,234Did you get the number of CPR patients they studied??? 13 whole patients???? That makes it statistically impossible to draw any conclusions. They need to select 100 hospitals all over the US and then study 100 CPRs in each. After that they can get back to me with their findings and I will take them seriously.
Apr 14, '04Occupation: Clinical Manager ICU/med/surg/tele Specialty: 26 year(s) of experience in M/S/Tele, Home Health, Gen ICU ; Joined: Dec '03; Posts: 225; Likes: 22May be if there are too many breat hs per minute there are not enough compressions to circulate the O2. 13 is not a large enough sample size to be statistically significant, it should be at least 30. Patients who require CPR are already in a lot of trouble and are unlikely to have a good outcome. However as professionals if we are BLS, ACLS, PALS or NRP we shouls perform the alogorithims properly, I,m thinking that adrenaline has a lot to answer to in this case.