NCSBN rules out Philippines as NCLEX site - page 3

just a sad update to other filipinos. american nurses' boards won't accredit rp grads this post is not meant to incite arguments, but to inform.... Read More

  1. by   pinoy_guy
    Quote from corrupted_caregiver
    I think that the United States should release an official position on the issue. And unless US hospitals, NCSBN, and CGFNS have not release official written statements, the infos here regarding the "leakage scandal" in the June 2006 PNLE will all be opinions. All we hear are hearsays. So to get closure, NCSBN, CGFNS, and US hospitlas should release an official written statement that they will not accept June 2006 passers unless they undergo a total retake. And that will put to justice the posts written in the Philippine Nursing Forum regarding the June 2006 PNLE.
    this is your opinion.

    as Suzanne & I had pointed out, the CGFNS & NCSBN people had voiced their opinions on the issue. "if this had happened in the US, they would have a retake." "the issue is competence, not justice" for people arguing against retake coz of "justice."

    they would never come out and say on the record that we Filipinos SHOULD do something...they wouldn't dare insult our sovereignty. they did things diplomatically.

    I'm sorry if you can't (or won't) see nor hear the signals they're sending. you're not alone.

    Quote from corrupted_caregiver
    All of the infos have been mind wrecking to many who visited the site and instead of having answers, all they come up leads to more questions. The one posted about visa screen in the CGFNS site is helpful but there is no final decision yet leading to a 50 - 50 chance again to those june 2006 passers who want to apply for visa screen. And the news of US hospitals not accepting new passers has not been verified nor official released for the information of those new nurses leading to more disarray.
    with a lot of Filipino news agencies praising the oath-taking and relegating the feedback from the CGFNS & NCSBN people to the background, I feel somebody should speak out about the inconsistencies.

    as Suzanne said, we cannot "sweep things under the rug."

    everything about the Leakage Issue had been published on Internet news sites, even blog sites. a simple search will lead you to them.

    the only difference is, US agencies will be sifting through the news reports for the objective ones.

    some news articles had been press releases, or "plugs," or news with "spin"...these are the feel-good news articles coming from our government.

    I opted to pick the objective reports citing what the CGFNS & NCSBN people really said, without the spin.

    is this "nerve wracking?" this is not my aim.

    my aim is to call attention to the elephant in the living room. how do we solve the problem? our government "solved" the problem by covering the elephant with a table cloth. I think it is best to lead the elephant out of the living room, out of the house.

    Quote from corrupted_caregiver
    Filipinos has a way I think and I know that US does not actually care for the Philippines. So whether the courts here decided, they should release their positions regarding the issue so the applicants will know the path they should take, with certainty. There will always be two sides of the coin, those who are happy and those who are not in the court's decision.
    the US does care for the Philippines. for the time being. from news reports, US hospitals get 80% of their foreign nurses from our country.

    I would like to point out though that we are not the sole suppliers right now. a lot of nurses are entering the US hospitals from China, Hong Kong, India, Pakistan, Thailand, & Korea. a lot of Filipino nurses currently working in the UK are also applying for US positions.

    in a few years, I worry that we will be overtaken by these other countries as the major foreign source of RNs to the US.

    just like Thailand is now supplying patis (fish sauce) and preserved mangoes to America--formerly our preserve.

    China is even importing nurses or nursing students "to learn from." most people think it's to learn nursing practice; I suspect otherwise. they want to learn English, specifically Medical English, from our nurses.

    and where does that leave us?

    Quote from corrupted_caregiver
    Generally, I think we are just not good losers as we may call it, because our "ugali" always say that if don't get our way, we complain.
    sorry, but I am not a "loser" in this issue.

    I have handled some students in the affected batch, and have some friends in this batch. this is why I'm even reading up & studying the issue.

    don't worry, I won't be "complaining" as much in the near future.

    Quote from corrupted_caregiver
    A lot more questions instead of answers. I think it's time that we turn that around.
    these are the questions which should have been answered in the first place, not ignored.

    Suzanne is starting to sound like the prophetess Cassandra. a lot of people try to drown out her words...but she's vindicated in the end.

    like the people claiming that the Leakage Issue is confined to the Philippines; Suzanne disagreed. some of these people then resorted to personal attacks. bottomline? after a month or so, the CGFNS people, then the NCSBN people, say that they're studying the Leakage Issue. so the Leakage had an effect in the US, enough to warrant a news release from CGFNS.

    my point is this: we can either go along with the farce that everything is OK in Philippine Nursing, or we can point out the problems objectively and do something about it.

    an analogy is that the June 2006 NLE passers are on a bus with substandard wheels. the LTO (PRC & BON & Court of Appeals) clears the bus as roadworthy, but Suzanne & I point out that they are still substandard wheels. they may take the passers to their destination (US hospitals), but there's a risk the bus won't make it to the destination. the bus could be turned around at the first Check Point (VisaScreen application), the 2nd Check Point (Green Card application), or the 3rd Check Point (US Citizenship application).

    or maybe the analogy does not fully cover the situation, because of the revocation section. this would mean that even after the nurse works in the US hospital for years, he/she can be returned to the Philippines because the bus he/she used to get to the US had substandard wheels.

    sucks, doesn't it?

    but to quote, "fairness is not the issue."

    and as I have posted, I would rather know the situation I'm in, rather than just go for the ride. this way, I know the risks I'm taking, and can take remedial steps to avoid the problems. at the very least, I won't be surprised when I get deported.

    to quote Suzanne, "Please use some common sense here. If you wish to work in the US, you need to follow their rules. If you wish to work in the Philippines, you can follow their rules. The choice is yours to make."
  2. by   suzanne4
    The US cannot tell another country what to do about nursing in that country, but they can be specific as to whom they will let practice in the US, and they keep coming out and stating that the nurse needs to meet the US requirements and standards if they are to work here.

    And that means that those that bought their licenses and did not complete the appropriate clinical hours are also caught up in this. Please pay close attention to the Handbook from CGFNS.

    Naturalization and having a green card are two different things. If the VSC gets cancelled, then the green card gets cancelled, and there is nothing that can be done about it. Just be very aware of what you are doing or planning to do.
  3. by   corrupted_caregiver
    Thanks for the response as I really do appreciate it.

    But come to think of it, I think it is better to point it out as bluntly as they can that they stand for the retake of the entire exam. Discrete hints or words are subjected to misinterpretation and thus chaos happens. I'm not saying that authorities here are completely untrustworthy, that will be a fallacy. But as you've said, NCSBN and CGFNS showed hints and opinions rather than their stand. I mean, a written statement as blunt as a retake to the whole exam by June 2006 passers will do. I'm not ignoring the hints but it's better if you hit the nail right in the head therefore making it clear to all of the recipients. Don't you think? That's just my opinion.

    Verbal statements without an official stand as I've said is subject to misinterpretion. Like for example, at that time, PRC "verbally saying" that there will be no retake, but we are all waiting for the official stand right then because it is their opinion. Until it came into written document of the CA. So there you go, clear instruction. (I'm pointing out about the clarity of instruction, not the wisdom of the result of CA) Thus, I think to put it out bluntly rather than hints will make it very clear to those who are dreaming to be in the US. I've done some polling of my own that if the US officially released a statement that they wouldn't accept June 2006 passers unless a total retake of the exam, if they will retake the said exam, and they said yes. That just made me smile. That's just the point I'm driving at.

    Thanks to suzanne and pinoy_guy. You've been a lot of help.

    American DREAM only occurs when you sleep. :spin:


  4. by   pinoy_guy
    continuation of mr. tadle's arguments.

    why bar, nursing test differ widely
    by prof. rene luis m. tadle and atty. cheryl l. daytec-yangot

    another reason why the supreme court's handling of the bar leakage is not applicable to the nursing issue is that mercantile law does not deal with life, unlike all the subject areas of nursing. mercantile law deals with commerce--it deals with property.

    to overstate the obvious, life is not the same as property. an error in the business of handling lives is irremediable. it can result in death or an existence akin to it. bluntly put, there is no room for mistakes in nursing.

    unlike a mistake committed by the lawyer whose competence in mercantile law was not measured, that of a nurse cannot be appealed . . . whereas there is no opportunity to correct the nurse's mistake which precipitated a patient's jumping off a bridge to his/her death, a tragedy that could have been avoided if the nurse were competent in psychiatric nursing.

    the predicament the examinees now find themselves in is a creation of the prc. undoubtedly had it acted with the same pace and resoluteness as the court did in 2003, the examinees would not be in a quandary and their misery would not have been unjustly prolonged. at this point, the spinning out of their agony is nonnegotiable if some kinks have to be ironed out and some wrongs have to be righted. otherwise, their competence and the integrity of the nursing profession would be sullied forever. theirs is a monumental sacrifice--albeit forced on them--which the government must recognize with no less than a decisive and judicious resolution of their problem.

    it is not only the credibility of the june 2006 examination that is the casualty of prc's mishandling of the leakage issue. the bigger casualty is the value of our people, their sense of right and wrong and their ability to discern heroism from villainy.
    they have studied the issue, and make a strong argument for their position.

    i am posting this here, because most other newspapers had ignored, and continue to ignore, airing "the other side."
  5. by   pinoy_guy

    the responsibility to maintain nurses' competence

    by faith fields
    president, national council of state boards of nursing

    speech delivered before the philippines nurses association at the manila hotel, october 27, 2006

    . . .
    i feel very privileged to be serving as the newly elected president of the council and want to extend my sincere appreciation to you for inviting me here to speak to "you" today.
    . . .
    our focus is always on public protection.
    . . .
    for the next few minutes i'd like for us to look at these three aspects of a global community. first there is shared responsibilities.

    we share a responsibility to lead by example.
    . . .
    we share a responsibility to know our scope of practice and the regulations that apply to our profession.
    . . .
    as nurses, we have a shared responsibility to maintain our competence and regulators have a shared responsibility to ensure that the public is protected from those who have not done so.

    . . .

    those values are:
    -integrity: doing the right thing for the right reason....
    . . .
    the second value is:
    - accountability: taking ownership and responsibility....
    . . .
    as i told president arroyo and as i will tell you here publicly, we are not here to tell you how to handle your business with your licensure examination anymore than you would come to the us and tell us how to deal with a breach in our exam. we can share with you how we have handled issues in the past and are willing to share what we have found as best practices in the test development process. with all the publicity surrounding this issue, the world is watching how you handle this challenge. "a crisis is a terrible thing to waste." and that is all i will say about that.
    . . .
    the next one of the national council values is
    -collaboration: forging solutions together.
    . . .
    - quality is the next value: pursuing excellence.
    . . .
    - vision is the last one of the national council's stated values: using the power of imagination and creative thought to foresee the potential and create the future.
    . . .
    there you have it. verbatim.

    you can read the entire speech via the link above.

    she's skilled in the arts of diplomacy.

    "we are not here to tell you how to handle your business with your licensure examination anymore than you would come to the us and tell us how to deal with a breach in our exam. we can share with you how we have handled issues in the past and are willing to share what we have found as best practices in the test development process."
  6. by   pinoy_guy

    june nle passers may not get visas

    the commission on graduates of foreign nursing schools (cgfns international) has issued a statement about the eligibility of filipino nurses who passed the june 2006 nle, which could mean their visascreen applications will be denied.

    . . .
    a philippine newspaper finally noticed the cgfns news bulletin, and its implications.

    kinda funny that the report just cut-&-pasted the faq section.

    the acid test would be if members of this batch will get their visascreen certificates.

    i eagerly await news of a june 2006 nle passer getting his/her vs certificate.

    please share the good news so we can stop worrying about this & move on.
  7. by   icing
    Mr. Dante Ang is one of the major share holders of manila times... so it would do him well to post that bit of news and push for a retake...

    Anyway it just says it "could" and it would have been better to use the word "may" than "will" before the word "denied".

    Besides, I don't think Filipinos are ready for the NCLEX testing center. We keep ignoring the non-disclosure contract we sign on our first day of the professional boards anyway. Questions in the professional boards seem to have a magical way of finding themselves in review "compilations".

    NCLEX is administered using a test bank and it is updated from time to time. If you put an NCLEX testing center here you might find the NCLEX questions in a so-called "complete" compilation of previous NCLEX questions in a few years... I can only imagine the controversy... But I can also imagine the droves of nurses with their money,who'd like to have a piece of that!!!

    NCSBN might even be saving some review centers money... allegedly sponsoring nurses to take the NCLEX and cop out some of the questions they were asked.
  8. by   Rep
    Quote from icing

    NCLEX is administered using a test bank and it is updated from time to time. If you put an NCLEX testing center here you might find the NCLEX questions in a so-called "complete" compilation of previous NCLEX questions in a few years... I can only imagine the controversy... But I can also imagine the droves of nurses with their money,who'd like to have a piece of that!!!
  9. by   Rep
    Only strong political will can resove this issue and say once and for all that a retake is the only and right option.

    People who stand for the retake position are being maligned and threatened. Being rightous is not a virtue anymore as evidenced by a lot of people who are not bothered that they carry a license that is tainted and does not hold credibility in the eyes of the world.

    And yet think they have the right to work in a country where the laws are different from ours.

    Sad indeed that we don't see the BIG PICTURE. Most of us wish this fiasco will just go away and everything will just turn right. Wake up! Unless we do the right thing , we Filipinos do not have the right to hold our heads up because this leakage scandal will not go away. It will stick with us like the MARK OF CAIN.

    Think of it!
  10. by   pinoy_guy
    one step forward

    5 named to board of nursing

    president gloria macapagal-arroyo has approved the appointments of five of the seven new members of the board of nursing (bon), executive secretary eduardo ermita said tuesday.

    appointed were carmencita abaquin as acting chairman and leonila faire, betty meritt, perla po, and marco antonio sto. tomas as acting members.

    . . .

    among the bon's tasks is to prepare the contents of the nursing board exam, the second of which would be held on december 2 and 3.

    two steps back

    dole probes lists of nursing board passers for 'aberrations'

    labor secretary arturo brion admitted tuesday that the controversy surrounding the leak-tainted june nursing licensure examinations is far from over.

    at a press briefing, brion said the department of labor and employment (dole) is investigating what he described as "aberrations" in the three lists of nursing board passers from the professional regulation commission (prc) and will submit a report on the results to the "proper forum" on november 6.

    "it is far from over. it is still with the courts and, like i said in the beginning, the judicial process will not end until the supreme court decides on it," he said.

    . . .

    the labor secretary said his office is looking into the differences between the prc's three lists: the "master list," which contains the original grades per subject of all the so examinees; the "retake list," which the prc came out with after the re-computation prompted by the discovery of the leak; and the third list, or the "deemed pass list," which was drawn up after the court of appeals struck down the prc's resolution allowing the re-computation of the original test results.

    "the differences puzzle us...there are a lot of aberrations in the three lists...that's why we are very hesitant [about] endorsing the oath-taking at this point," he said.

    . . .

    brion's chief of staff, lily pineda, explained that in general, the irregularities were in the differences between the grades of the unquestioned subjects 1, 2, and 4.

    in some cases, she said, the grades for all the subjects in lists 2 and 3 were different from the original master list.

    "there are also some who were told to retake [the board exam] who shouldn't retake anymore," she added.

    while they dance around the issue, the examinees suffer.
  11. by   Rep
    Quote from pinoy_guy

    while they dance around the issue, the examinees suffer.
    You said it right!
  12. by   pinoy_guy
    entire nursing board changed

    wednesday, november 1, 2006

    reacting to the manila times story that the commission on graduates of foreign nursing schools (cgfns) would screen filipino nurses who passed the june board exam, ermita said the government was as eager as the new batch of filipino nurses to have the controversy finally end.

    "we would like to see the problem on this licensure examination for nursing come to an end because the next examination will be december 2 and 3, hardly a month away. second, please note that the court of appeals had already ordered that the remaining nurses who passed could take their oath, and they have been taking their oath," he said.

    . . .

    the cgfns on monday warned that filipino nurses who belong to this year's batch of examinees could be denied when applying for visascreen application.
    . . .
    "we cannot fault the cgfns for taking such a position, because if they think that is the correct thing to do in order to remove any doubt about the competence of the newly passed nurses, then that is the call of the cgfns," ermita said.

    he promised to push the nbi into coming up with its final report that would identify the nurses who took classes in review centers such as the gapuz, ingress and pentagon review centers, and who among the reviewees would retake the test.

    "we are hoping that all these will help fine-tune the validity and eligibility of those who passed the examination, so we could persuade the cgfns that the government's effort to redeem the integrity of the nursing profession is genuine," he said.

    nbi director nestor mantaring has said the report on the leakage is being delayed by the tedious process of going over the names of reviewees to determine who benefited from the leak.

    labor secretary arturo brion said there were glaring disparities in the manner the prc recomputed the grades of the examinees.

    "i am not ready at this point to come out with specifics but i can generally tell you that we have found a lot of aberrations," brion told reporters tuesday.
    so we learn that the philippine government will respect whatever decision cgfns makes regarding this batch, just as cgfns respects how the philippine government will handle the problem. but as suzanne pointed out, respecting the decision and accepting the nurses are two different things.

    they can respect each other's decisions, and cgfns may not accept the nurses from this batch.

    sacrificial lambs.

    the second question is the alleged difficulty of getting the list of reviewees. from last month's news reports, the nbi had the list of reviewees at that time...they had at least a month to go over the list. the lists are alphabetical, so it should be easy to just take the names of the involved people. and yeah, everything is computerized: from the prc to gapuz to pentagon. i think inress also. they have the names in electronic form, should be easy to get the names.

    i think the sheer number of the reviewees in these review centers is the big factor.

    friends estimate thousands of reviewees for gapuz and pentagon alone, at least 10,000. that's almost 1/4 of the examinees. if this fact comes out, the entire exam is as good as voided, because the leak reached a lot of the examinees. this is why the prc "could not find a pattern of cheating." the pattern, or abnormal spikes, will be so diluted that it can be interpreted as a general upward trend. the victims are the people who did not get a copy of the leak.

    the other problem is that thousands will have to retake (as ordered by the court of appeals), not only the 1,000+ mentioned. another round of lawsuits.

    feeding frenzy for the lawyers...

    i really feel sorry for this batch, especially my students.


    personally, i think the prc should allow passers of this batch to retake the entire exam, all 5 if they never took the june 2006 nle.

    start with a clean slate.

    all these lawsuits and contemplated lawsuits will hang like damocles' sword over their heads for the next few years.
  13. by   pinoy_guy
    retired teacher, 4 others are 'acting' nursing board execs

    5 named bon members "acting" only.

    five days after the court of appeals paved the way for the oath-taking of new nurses, malacañang on tuesday announced the appointment of an "outstanding" but retired academician as chairperson, and four other persons as members, of the board of nursing (bon) -- all in acting capacity only.

    . . .

    named acting bon chair was carmencita abaquin, "outstanding professional in nursing" awardee of the university of the philippines college of nursing (upcn) last june.

    abaquin had taught both in the undergraduate and graduate programs of the upcn and retired last june after 41 years of service. she continues to serve as a lecturer at the college.
    . . .
    merritt was a former president of the upcn alumni association inc.
    . . .
    sto. tomas is vice president of the association of deans of the philippine colleges of nursing.

    . . .

    ermita directed the anti-fraud and computer crimes division of the national bureau of investigation to finish "soon" its investigation into the scandal.

    he said the nbi probe should be completed before the scheduled retake.

    the nbi has yet to reconcile the names of the students who took review classes at the inress, gapuz and pentagon review centers, whose enrollees allegedly benefited from the leaked questions.

    additional students would likely have to retake the exams once the nbi has established the identities of those who had enrolled with the three review centers.

    ermita said malacañang could not blame the commission on graduates of foreign nursing schools (cgfns) if the group remains skeptical of nursing students who took their oaths and obtained their licenses on the basis of the june 2006 nursing examinations.

    he insisted, though, that the government has done everything it could to restore the integrity of the nursing profession.
    2 acting bon members from university of the philippines college of nursing.

    one is the vice president of the association of deans of the philippine colleges of nursing.

    i hope they can make the december 2006 nle questions in time.

    again, the mention of additional students who are likely to retake the exams.

    i think the e. coli will hit le ventileteur when (if?) they finally release this list. revocation of licenses and retaking the 2 tests.

    will these examinees, whose only "fault" was to attend the final coaching at the involved 3 review centers, accept the revocation of their licenses after the much-publicized oath-taking? ouch. will these examinees willingly retake the tests 3 & 5 before december 2?

    at least mr. ermita is realistic and acknowledged that the philippine government cannot force cgfns to accept the nurses.