Nursing Homes Without Nurses???

djv · Feb 4, 2006

My wife has being a LPN for 30 years and work's now in a nursing home. She has done the job as a RN and have had RN's come to her for advice. There are a many of small things that she has done that was in the RN's job to do and she has had to do them because the RN that shift did not know how to do the job. SO the place she works pays OK for LPN and RN, as far as I am concern a lot of these places just don't give the LPN more credit and pay.

peachesRN · Feb 6, 2006

What training is given these "med techs"? Can they function in the same capacity as a nurse? As a charge nurse and with patient acuity rising, nothing's like having another nurse available to share the load. Where are these Nursing Associations when it comes to standards of care? Years ago they probably "invented LVNs" (a mix of orderlies/nurse) to save money on RNs. Now that they find that LVN salaries are growing right along RNs, LVNs are simply being sent the way of the orderly. What's next, Diploma and Associate nurses wll become the next Med Techs?...and what the heck are MAs and PAs anyway? :uhoh3: I mean, Healthcare barely feels like a profession any more with all of the division...usually a mechanic is a mechanic, a cop is a cop, and a fireman is a fireman...there are no "Fire Techs" who just set up the hose and leave the actual "care" of the fire to the "Real Firemen"!

Look, I'm not good with words and I'm not even sure of what the answers are, but if I were looking at careers, I wouldn't choose one which tells someone that after 30years on the job that they either take a cut in pay or go back to school (at your expense)...oh, and, uh by the way, when you get your Bach's, you will be the only "licensed" person on the floor...and uh since gone are the days that nurses aren't sued, good luck!

I wish we'd handle our "oil crisis" the same way we handled our nurses....pay it well and then when things depend on it, simply phase it out for less expensive choices. UNION!:yeahthat: :twocents:

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Feb 7, 2006

What training is given these "med techs"? Can they function in the same capacity as a nurse? As a charge nurse and with patient acuity rising, nothing's like having another nurse available to share the load. Where are these Nursing Associations when it comes to standards of care? Years ago they probably "invented LVNs" (a mix of orderlies/nurse) to save money on RNs. Now that they find that LVN salaries are growing right along RNs, LVNs are simply being sent the way of the orderly. What's next, Diploma and Associate nurses wll become the next Med Techs?...and what the heck are MAs and PAs anyway? I mean, Healthcare barely feels like a profession any more with all of the division...usually a mechanic is a mechanic, a cop is a cop, and a fireman is a fireman...there are no "Fire Techs" who just set up the hose and leave the actual "care" of the fire to the "Real Firemen"!
Look, I'm not good with words and I'm not even sure of what the answers are, but if I were looking at careers, I wouldn't choose one which tells someone that after 30years on the job that they either take a cut in pay or go back to school (at your expense)...oh, and, uh by the way, when you get your Bach's, you will be the only "licensed" person on the floor...and uh since gone are the days that nurses aren't sued, good luck!
I wish we'd handle our "oil crisis" the same way we handled our nurses....pay it well and then when things depend on it, simply phase it out for less expensive choices. UNION!:yeahthat:

For more information on the illustrious medication aide position, please see these links:

https://allnurses.com/forums/f165/medication-aides-96392.html

http://www.ncbon.com/education-factsheet.asp

And yes, 24 hours' worth of preparation is all that is needed :eek: Again, this is a very sad day in North Carolina, and does not speak well for how we value our frail, elderly population

peachesRN · Feb 9, 2006

thanks for the info but can "they" be stopped at this point?

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Feb 14, 2006

thanks for the info but can "they" be stopped at this point?

No, unfortunately, I think the "med-aide" is a done deal One thing we can do is get this information out to the public. Here is a great website with the latest information on medication aides in our state:

http://www.ncpama.org/

LPN1974, LPN · Feb 14, 2006

I just do not understand how this is going to work.

Seems like such an enormous amount of responsibility there that the RN on duty will have to carry.

In one of the articles provided thru a link, it said that the RN will delegate only technical duties......how is that possible, since the nursing home has already decided that med aides will be used? Seems to me that the powers that be, of the NH, have decided that med aides will be used and already decided their duties. Who is doing the delegating here and what is left for the RN to delegate? I think that's just a copout statement in order to get around using med aides.....they are still saying the RN is responsible, when in reality, the duties of the med aide are already decided and the RN just has to suck it up.

It also said that any nursing judgements/decisions, or assessments will be the RN's responsibility. Well what good is a med aide to pass meds if that person cannot decide when to administer something or not? Is the RN going to have to be right there at the aide's side thruout the med pass to say whether or not yes, it's okay to give this med, but this one needs to be withheld until the doctor can be notified? What kind of help is that?

It is beyond me and I just don't understand how a med aide is going to help, except to pad someone's pocket with money.

peachesRN · Jun 22, 2006

this situation saddens me as i was looking forward to moving back east. i've been in ltc so long that it scares me to think that i may have to go back into hopital work. i just can't do the med tech thing. i've thought about nursing school instructor but i don't have my bs and positions aren't as available and i hear that the pay isn't worth it. how about day surgery?..

thanks for any feedback

RNSuzq1, RN · Jun 23, 2006

LPN,

I responded to Vicky's original post last month about the NCBON's decision to allow med techs. I recently graduated from an RN Program and all of the points you discussed in your post were ones that we discussed in class. The most important and potentially lethal part of our job as Nurses is medication administration - and the reason we were constantly supervised for 2 years by Instructors while giving out meds. We had to know what each med was, drug classification, potential side effects, proper assessments before and after the meds were given, etc.

We had it drilled into our heads to "never, ever" sign off on a drug that we did not give the patient ourselves. Allowing another person to give a drug that you're responsible for is setting yourself and the patient up for trouble. You have no idea if the drug was actually given, if a proper assessment was done prior to administering it, if the patient had an adverse reaction to the drug, etc.

I worked long and hard to get my license and don't plan on jeopardizing it or the lives of my patients by allowing an unlicensed person with much less training than a CNA to give out any medications that I'm responsible for - I'd leave the job before that happens.