Is Health Care a Right?

Nurses Activism

Published

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking the bank? How would you place limits (if any) on health care for all?

Here are some figures taken from the World Health Organisation web site (which are supplied by the respective countries, before anyone says anything critical about the W.H.O.) -- which make for some very interesting reading -- especially directed at those who are complaining that universal health care will mean them digging into their own pockets.....

BTW, I picked the comparative countries as those which I know have some sort of universal health care, and for no other reason......

Australia has universal heath care (Medicare)

....spends 8.3% of its total GDP on health

....spends a total of $2,213 (in converted currency) on health care per annum per head of population

Canada has universal health care (Medicare??)

....spends 9.1% of its total GDP on health

....spends a total of $2,534 on health care per annum per head of population

United Kingdom has universal health care (NHS)

....spends 7.3% of its total GDP on health

....spends a total of $1,774 on health care per annum per head of population

United States does not have universal health care

....spends 13.0% of its total GDP on health

....spends a total of $4,499 on health care per annum per head of population.

Now, I know what some of you say about the quality of health care in the US, but I would imagine that the quality of care in any of those other three countries is at least as good, and that at any stretch, the health care in the US could not possibly be nearly twice as good as that of Canada, the UK or Australia??

So, would someone like to explain to me again, in simple language that we can all understand, why the introduction of universal health care in the US is likely to cost more than the current system??

Incidentally, in the UK, although elective care may take a while due to the chronic underfunding, Managemnt costs are around 4-5% total for the Health Service. You don't need an army of bean counters chasing payments, insurance companies, etc.

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

not only that, the key here is "may take a while" (translate that to DOES take a while. Stand in line, bub!

In OUR country, we are far too used to immediate gratification. We have no patience. We want it NOW. We want the best, we don't want the new guy from med school.

Tell me, what happens when (say, Canada, for instance) the budget runs out, and the annual funds have not yet kicked in?

They close the doors.

Doctors close theirs.

When the government controls the game, you play under their rules. They dictate your wages, your benefits, everything!

Under Hillary (someone back there was touting her) for instance, I DID read her proposals (lot of wind and filler in those pages. Lord do I despise lawyers!) and in her proposals, you had to ask permission to get a new doctor even if you MOVED out of your 'region'.

Personally, I like to choose. When my health plan changed, and my doc was not part of it, I paid out of pocket to keep him. He is very good, and I don't trust just anyone.

Truth of it all is, however, that if the healthcare of these other countries is so great, tell me where the MAJORITY of those out of other countries go for treatment? The flow to Germany is NOTHING compared to the flow to here.

California. Very high tax rate. Wait until you pass your version of universal healthcare. HIGHER tax rate. When is ENOUGH going to be ENOUGH?

At some point, you will take home less than half of what you work for. How long will that last??

It is not an argument to say our healthcare system is in trouble. NOBODY here disputes that! However, the govenment (despite what my liberal friends would like to believe) is NOT your mommy and daddy. If we do not enforce some personal responsibilitys soon, then we are doomed, no matter what 'feel good' solutions we tack on to our profession (and take out of our wallet).

Just on the elective surgery thing, some are pointing a finger at waiting lists for elective surgery as a black mark against universal health care. The way I see it, I'd much rather wait a few months for my elective surgery that not get it at all because I couldn't afford insurance!!

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

well, from some personal experience in my own family. I have cousins in England. One of 'em needed cataract surgery, and by the time his name came up, the eye was unsalvageable, however, the other eye now needed surgery, but they would not do it because it was the OTHER eye. Back on a list. He came here and got it done (and I got another chance to say 'hi' before he passed away (3 yrs ago).

I'm expecting this is not the rule, but the exception. But it DID happen, nonetheless.

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

let us also know that in most of these countries (if not all. I don't know about the 'all' part) that population does not treat nearly the number (not even close) of illegal aliens that we do. What happens to them? We just say ' oh no problem, ?'

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

For the record, the 'Give us your sick, your tired, your hungry' does NOT mean that we will 'Heal them, let them rest, and feed them'. It MEANS that we will offer them the OPPORTUNITY, the choice, and the ability to seek the resources to follow their dreams, to feed themselves, etc.

NOWHERE did it EVER say anything about a free hand-out.

Our country is UNMATCHED by ANY in the WORLD when it comes to charity, but there really IS an upper limit to what people will put up with.

Dont >I

On the other hand, we could EASILY afford universal healthcare, if we would quit giving out all that money (that never gets paid back) to other countries to help with their suffering.

Give it some thought. Take from that, before you ask me to give up one more red cent than I already have to. Considder this when you also go on about how other countries pay for their system, and how much less it costs other citizens.

let us also know that in most of these countries (if not all. I don't know about the 'all' part) that population does not treat nearly the number (not even close) of illegal aliens that we do.
if I'm not mistaken, Canada, the UK and Australia also have a very significant immigrant population. And yet...(see OzNurse's numbers).
Originally posted by Gromit

Our country is UNMATCHED by ANY in the WORLD when it comes to charity, but there really IS an upper limit to what people will put up with.

Dont >I

On the other hand, we could EASILY afford universal healthcare, if we would quit giving out all that money (that never gets paid back) to other countries to help with their suffering.

Oh dear, Gromit, you really should check your facts before you get all cranky like that....it's not good for the blood pressure, really.

FACT:The US pays more in dollar amounts than any other country in the world in foreign aid.

FACT:The US pays lessas a percentage of gross national product in foreign aid of ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD!!

(See below - figures taken from the OECD website)

ODA in U.S. Dollars(Millions) ODA as Percentage

of GNP

Country 1999 2000 2001 1999 2000 2001

1. Denmark 1,733 1,664 1,599 1.01 1.06 1.01

2. Norway 1,370 1,264 1,346 0.91 0.8 0.83

11. United Kingdom3,401 4,458 4,659 0.23 0.31 0.32

15. New Zealand 134 116 111 0.27 0.26 0.25

17. Australia 982 995 852 0.26 0.27 0.25

19. Canada 1,699 1,722 1,572 0.28 0.25 0.23

22. United States 9,145 9,58110,884 0.1 0.1 0.11

Frankly, it all seems to be a matter of redistribution of resources -- there is plenty of money there, it is just being used for the wrong purpose.

I'm not asking you to give up any red cents, just saying that universal health care doesn't necessarily equate to more money.

BTW, on the illegal immigration thing, I couldn't find any official govt statistics on the money spent on illegal immigrants for health care, cos, guess what, by definition (you know, being ILLEGAL & all) they aren't entitled to any!! I'd be interested to know where you got your "figures" from....about numbers of illegal aliens treated per capita or as a percentage of GNP -- can you direct me to the appropriate survey??

When it comes to human rights etc, in the words of another board member (sorry, would acknowledge you, but I can't remember who it was!!)....

....do NOT mess with me, you WILL NOT win.....:kiss

(Bugger, that table didn't work -- sorry guys, you'll just have to line up the figures in your heads...)

Gromit states - "Truth of it all is, however, that if the healthcare of these other countries is so great, tell me where the MAJORITY of those out of other countries go for treatment? The flow to Germany is NOTHING compared to the flow to here."

Where did you get the idea that people from other countries are flowing to the US for health care? Why would they want to pay for expensive health care here, when they can get it free right where they are? America is the only developed country where getting sick or injured can, and all too frequently does, lead to banckruptcy. Americans are highly misinformed about the health care situation in other countries.

And why do you think taxes would go up if we had a universal Health Plan? All the studies that have been done so far have shown savings in the billions $$. The Government already finances about 60% of all health care costs in the U.S.

Private emplorers contribute less than 20%. We are already paying for Universal health care and not getting it!

^5, feisty!!

+ Add a Comment