Hospital Falters as Refuge for Illegal Immigrants

[Anxious Patient]

ATLANTA — Each had crossed the border years before, smuggled across the desert by a coyote, never imagining the journey would lead to a drab and dusty clinic on the ninth floor of Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta.

Some knew before the crossing that they had diabetes or lupus or high blood pressure, but it was only after they arrived that their kidneys began to fail. To survive, they needed dialysis at a cost of about $50,000 a year, which their sporadic work as housekeepers, painters and laborers could not begin to cover.

And so they turned to Grady, a taxpayer-supported safety-net hospital that would provide dialysis to anyone in need, even illegal immigrants with no insurance or ability to pay.

a sampling of the hundreds of reader comments:

All those wire payments to Mexico? Remittances? They should be taxed 75 percent to pay for medical, school, police, etc costs.

Poor. Isolated by language. Unable to work because of the law and because you feel so weak. Constant threat of deportment or arrest. With dialysis you might live another ten or twenty years, but without it you will die in a week or maybe two. How desparate would you feel?

With the numbers of dialysis patients dramatically increasing, it's difficult to find chairs for people who can actually pay, or have the resources to pay. As for illegal aliens, maybe the large dialysis companies like Davita or the pharmacutical companies can help pay.

I am an RN working in an area where many uninsured seek treatment. Someone ultimately has to pay for that treatment and it is those of us who are working and have insurance.

Trillions in bailout to wall street billionaires. This country has lost it's heart and it's soul.

No compassion anymore. We need to be more harsh. Kick every illegal out . Racism? I really don't care if you call it that. All of them: white, brown, yellow, black----out! In Mexico they don't pamper their illegals.

Please note that the Illegal's are not only paying taxes but they are also contributing to the U.S. economy by taking jobs which the natives or legal would not touch.

The solution is pretty clear-cut, isn't it? Emergency treatment for undocumented workers? Sure. Long-term care? No way.

Isn't it clear that we must become an ethical country where matters of health are concerned? Isn't it clear we must lead the way to a global community?

Of course the hospital has to stop treating these patients if the treatments are pulling the hospital under.

Perhaps, young man, you can change your name to Goldman Sachs and then try again for welfare.

How is this different from sneaking into someone's house and complaining that their refrigerator is empty?

I am irritated by their sense of entitlement to free care when there are so many legal Americans who go without care and prescriptions because of the cost. The fact that they crossed the border knowing they had a chronic health condition that would require care is completely irresponsible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/health/policy/21grady.html

[SilentMind]

"There are two groups of immigrants. Those that come here because they can make way more then they can at home, and send it all back out of the country to their families back home, until they have enough saved up that they can go back and live happily. You know, the ones that are milking the system. On the other hand, there are those that come here because it's the only chance they have."

I'd like to know why Americans see to argue the reasons behind illegal immigration matters. Does anyone care why people who commit crimes such as stealing or using illegal drugs? Many of these people come from horrid backgrounds and feel forcing into their situation, but the punishment is the same. We don't sit around and classify them as "those who use illegal drugs due to severe abuse as a child",etc...

Well, I have no faith or respect for the law. My definition of a crime is something I wouldn't do under my own moral compass. I'm not the sort to give sex offenders a free pass because they had a rough childhood or anything. But as far as stealing? There's a huge difference between stealing because you're starving and have no other means to obtain food and ganking an ipod.

I'm not going to come out and outright say you're wrong. But it's a complicated issue from the humanitarian side.

[SoundofMusic]

Well, if Americans try to go to Mexico and get "benefits" they are thrown out on their rears. I'm sorry, but NO intelligent society does what we do here in accepting responsibility for their care.

I'm not too excited either about the thought of allowing them into our military. As a military spouse, I am cognizant of the fact that it takes extreme loyalty to THIS country to serve and to be asked to give your life for our country. You have to be literate, as well, to pass the tests to get into the military. Many of these immigrants are not even literate in their own language, and I'm not entirely certain I want them in our military armed and in charge of military equipment, or to have received military training on our dime. The military would also then be responsible as well for taking care of their dependents.

How would these "paths to citizenship" even be enforced? And how would we stop chain migration? I don't think there would be ANY limits to the onslought of chain migration if we were to grant amnesty to those who are already here.

I feel they need to go HOME. They have outstayed their welcome here, and should go back to fight for benefits and justice in their own countries, not take from this one. I also resent many of them for not learning our language and DEMANDING interpreters and other services tailored to them. No other immigrant group has ever demanded so much. Many do not seem to want to assimilate into our society, but prefer to stay and be identified as yet another minority "victim" group. Sorry -- I worked for what I've earned, and so should they.

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

there are two groups of immigrants. those that come here because they can make way more then they can at home, and send it all back out of the country to their families back home, until they have enough saved up that they can go back and live happily. you know, the ones that are milking the system. on the other hand, there are those that come here because it's the only chance they have. often times they come from places riddled by extreme poverty, gang violence, corrupt governments. illegals don't have it easy in the least, as they have to scrape out a living with the constant paranoia of being caught. but it just shows how bad it was back home.

i cannot, in any decent conscience, judge these people. the legal channels are often not an option, as the lists can take years, if you can even get on them. if i was in their position, i have to say....i'd be jumping the border too. if you have families depending on you, they come first. even above the law.

furthermore, they have the american dream firmly in their minds. noone embodies the american spirit quite like immigrants do. to come from nothing, and to be so grateful for the simplest opportunities. as opposed to those who grew up here and never knew anything else, who feel entitled to everything and go on endlessly about how horrible this country is and how it doesn't give enough.

a lot of these people want to succeed, whatever it takes. which is more then i can say about a lot of americans. they just never had the chance in any aspect of their lives. i'm so tired of inner city youths going on about being "disadvantaged" when they have so many options available to them if they'd only put in the effort. immigrants on the other hand have nothing when they come here. they can't even get a job flipping burgers, and have to settle for under the table work. they have no prospects at education, or anything else. but they're damn sure going to try. and i don't care who you are, you have to respect that much. as i said, i would much sooner part with my tax dollars to give them a shot then i would to support lifetime welfare recipients pregnant with their third or fourth child.

you know, this post actually made me think. i'm surprised at myself. i thought i'd be a lot harsher on illegals.

so, you have no empathy for americans but tons of concern for illegals? you don't judge them but you cast harsh judgements on americans? may i just add that the conditions you describe are present and prevalent right here in the good ole united states of america! you really just described the conditions of many of those 'inner city youths' you're going on about. do you have any idea of what goes on in the 'inner city'. do you really think that it's as simple as putting a few programs in place and curing the unrest in our own backyard?

tell me, how are the illegals jumping the border to take advantage of these services any better than americans being on welfare and popping out their third or fourth child? have you ever been in a wic office and seen the actual amount of children these 'illegals' have? who's to say that because they jumped the border, they're gonna work any harder than the people already here? how do you figure americans don't 'want' to suceed?

do you realize that many of these inner city youth also never had a chance in any aspect of their lives? what do you think happened to all the crack babies of the '80's and early '90's? they grew up! there's more damage than you can imagine in the inner city and believe me, when one does find a way out, you've never seen anyone more grateful for the chance!

i feel your generalizations are sloppy, careless and not even 50% close to the actuality of inner city life! :angryfire

as far as this thread goes, the american government is always trying to fix other countries for whatever reason and many times, these attempts backfire, causing more damage than not. i can identify as could anyone in healthcare, especially nurses, with this nurturing tendency. however, the reality is that we as a country are in trouble, especially healthcare, and should be focused on fixing our own mess before we extend a hand to others.

[SilentMind]

So, you have no empathy for americans but tons of concern for illegals? You don't judge them but you cast harsh judgements on americans? May I just add that the conditions you describe are present and prevalent right here in the good ole United States of America! You really just described the conditions of many of those 'inner city youths' you're going on about. Do you have any idea of what goes on in the 'inner city'. Do you really think that it's as simple as putting a few programs in place and curing the unrest in our own backyard?

I guess I'm just tired of americans, who think they have it so horribly. Comparing even the worst cities to third world countries is just a joke. It just shows how spoiled we've become as a country. With welfare/food stamps/section 9, there's no such thing as poverty in this country. Not real poverty anyways.

Just some optional reading so you can see how horrible inner city conditions really are. (http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_13801840)

Btw, detroit...thats doing so horrible and becoming a ghost town? Per capita income comes out to an inhuman $14,000. How does that stack up on a global scale?

Nicaragua - $2779

Honduras - $2793

Cuba - $3000

Bolivia - $3049

Mexico - $10,000

I guarantee you, they're government assistance programs look nothing like what we have.

The bottom line is, even in the cities, kids have the paths available to succeed in whatever they want. Whether or not it's easy isn't really my concern. I'm not worried about fixing the problems in our backyard. They have the tools to fix their own problems should they decide they want it badly enough.

Tell me, how are the illegals jumping the border to take advantage of these services any better than americans being on welfare and popping out their third or fourth child? Have you ever been in a WIC office and seen the actual amount of children these 'illegals' have? Who's to say that because they jumped the border, they're gonna work any harder than the people already here? How do you figure americans don't 'want' to suceed?

Like I said, there are two groups of immigrants. Some abuse the system. Some don't. Just like there are two groups of americans, I suppose. You got your down on your luck mother who's husband just passed away and facing downsizing at work, who needs help getting by. Then you have people having babies for profit abusing the system.

At the end of the day, jumping the border isn't any better then those that milk the system here.

Do you realize that many of these inner city youth also never had a chance in any aspect of their lives? What do you think happened to all the crack babies of the '80's and early '90's? They grew up! There's more damage than you can imagine in the inner city and believe me, when one does find a way out, you've never seen anyone more grateful for the chance!

I live outside of Miami. I don't live in the inner city, but close enough to catch glimpses. I also attend comunity college that's fed by a pretty bad area. It's dominated by lower income students, who recieve all the financial aid they can spend. And then some for their trouble. Some abuse it, drop the classes, take the money and run. Some actually take the opportunity and use it to better themselves and step up a rung. Most of them just go through the motions, and complain that classes are too hard and there's too much work. You wouldn't believe how watered down some of these courses are just so they can keep up. And they still demand extra credit at every turn so they can eek by with a C. So as far as I'm concerned, there are channels in place for those that are willing to wor for it. And thats all that matters. Again, I'm not the least bit concerned with whether or not it's easy for them.

I had a kid in my microbiology class who was here illegaly from macedonia. He already had a degree in marketing I think, but he was working towards the nursing program because it's still considered an "in demand" job and would facilitate the legal channels. But in the meantime, he works as a server under the table making...not much. He's an illegal, so no financial aid/grants/loans. He's not considered a resident so he has to pay out of state fees, which...even for community college is -expensive-. And he's gotta pay for all the other costs of living. He was the sharpest in the class, really devoted to his studies.

Inner city students don't have to go through nearly as many hurdles. The paths are there to be taken, but I think most are bitter at the world, find it easier to succumb to victimology and class warfare, rather then decide to take their futures into their own hands. Everything in life is a choice.

I feel your generalizations are sloppy, careless and not even 50% close to the actuality of inner city life! :angryfire

As far as this thread goes, the American Government is always trying to fix other countries for whatever reason and many times, these attempts backfire, causing more damage than not. I can identify as could anyone in healthcare, especially nurses, with this nurturing tendency. However, the reality is that we as a country are in trouble, especially healthcare, and should be focused on fixing our own mess before we extend a hand to others.

Well, that's a valid point. Whatever I personally believe we should be doing to help others will always be tempered by limited resources. Naturally, we have to look out for number 1 first, and I don't agree whatsoever with offering open ended incentives for illegals. But there has to be a way to offer paths for those who are really devoted to carving a better life for themselves to find opportunities.

[Jerry 75]

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/misconduct_by_sekhon_firm_lawyers_puts_up_to_700_clients_in_peril/

This is unacceptable! I could care less about their situation in their country-to bad, tough luck! Illegals are breaking a law and in crossing that border and in doing so are hurting US economy and adding a tremendous burden to America which impacts many aspects of our life.

Bottom line is Illegals add to an already overburdened medical system, prison/jail / police departments, system, school system, cause an increase in crime, use up allot of taxpayers resources.

Why should I have to pay for someone else's medical care who is not even an American citizen? It is bad enough that we have to pay for the medical care of our own loosers such as junkies and alcoholics, prisoners!

[Jerry 75]

I quoted the wrong article in my last post this is the correct one

Lawyers in asylum trial deny falsifying documents

http://www.sacbee.com/ourregion/story/1943342.html

[allthaticanbe]

i guess i'm just tired of americans, who think they have it so horribly. comparing even the worst cities to third world countries is just a joke. it just shows how spoiled we've become as a country. with welfare/food stamps/section 9, there's no such thing as poverty in this country. not real poverty anyways.

just some optional reading so you can see how horrible inner city conditions really are. (http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_13801840)

btw, detroit...thats doing so horrible and becoming a ghost town? per capita income comes out to an inhuman $14,000. how does that stack up on a global scale? well it may not seem like alot in america but you have to remeber that cost of living is very different. did you know more then 60% of the east african community farm. thus they save alot on cost of living. also did you know that almost 70% of land in eastern africa is not purchased land, usually the plot of land is divided among the childern. granted their proverty levels are lower but i don't think its a fair argument to start compare per capita income. i bet this per capita income doesn't include the informal market that is especially big in countries like kenya. also un habitat has alot of better statistics, which can be a bit skewed as it doesn't take into account the circle migration pattern

nicaragua - $2779

honduras - $2793

cuba - $3000

bolivia - $3049

mexico - $10,000

i guarantee you, they're government assistance programs look nothing like what we have. yeah, some of the developing countries lack in government assistant plan.

the bottom line is, even in the cities, kids have the paths available to succeed in whatever they want. whether or not it's easy isn't really my concern. i'm not worried about fixing the problems in our backyard. they have the tools to fix their own problems should they decide they want it badly enough. really? they have the tools, which tools the underfunded educational system?

like i said, there are two groups of immigrants. some abuse the system. some don't. just like there are two groups of americans, i suppose. you got your down on your luck mother who's husband just passed away and facing downsizing at work, who needs help getting by. then you have people having babies for profit abusing the system.

at the end of the day, jumping the border isn't any better then those that milk the system here.

i live outside of miami. i don't live in the inner city, but close enough to catch glimpses. i hate to point this out but when you don't live that life its very easy to judge based on misconcieved notions.

i also attend comunity college that's fed by a pretty bad area. it's dominated by lower income students, who recieve all the financial aid they can spend. and then some for their trouble. some abuse it, drop the classes, take the money and run. i have you ever thought that these students are failing because they were not prepared well enough?

some actually take the opportunity and use it to better themselves and step up a rung. most of them just go through the motions, and complain that classes are too hard and there's too much work. you wouldn't believe how watered down some of these courses are just so they can keep up. and they still demand extra credit at every turn so they can eek by with a c. so as far as i'm concerned, there are channels in place for those that are willing to wor for it. and thats all that matters. again, i'm not the least bit concerned with whether or not it's easy for them.

inner city students don't have to go through nearly as many hurdles. the paths are there to be taken, but i think most are bitter at the world, find it easier to succumb to victimology and class warfare, rather then decide to take their futures into their own hands. everything in life is a choice.-

hurdles imagine living your whole life in poverty. imagine your parents working two fulltime jobs both just to make ends meet. you’re alone by yourself most afternoons because your folks can't afford to put you in basketball or gymnastics. everyday after school you go have to go to the library to study because internet isn't an option, the little money coming in has to go for food, books, and rent. you don't get to on any of the class trips because that extra forty dollars is too much money. try having your power cut off because your parents are down on their luck this month. you don't take sat prep courses you study on your own using books from the local library.

.

remember not everything is black and white

[SilentMind]

remember not everything is black and white

i really wish you guys would stop quoting in quotes. it makes it difficult to respond.

originally posted by silentmind i guess i'm just tired of americans, who think they have it so horribly. comparing even the worst cities to third world countries is just a joke. it just shows how spoiled we've become as a country. with welfare/food stamps/section 9, there's no such thing as poverty in this country. not real poverty anyways.

just some optional reading so you can see how horrible inner city conditions really are. (http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_13801840)

well it may not seem like alot in america but you have to remeber that cost of living is very different. did you know more then 60% of the east african community farm. thus they save alot on cost of living. also did you know that almost 70% of land in eastern africa is not purchased land, usually the plot of land is divided among the childern. granted their proverty levels are lower but i don't think its a fair argument to start compare per capita income. i bet this per capita income doesn't include the informal market that is especially big in countries like kenya. also un habitat has alot of better statistics, which can be a bit skewed as it doesn't take into account the circle migration pattern

feel free to disregard the specifics if you find them inaccurate. my main point was that poverty in america doesn't exist in the same form that poverty exists in developing countries. and that holds true regardless of the numbers.

really? they have the tools, which tools the underfunded educational system?

the educational system may not have the resources to reach out and reprogram every child. but the ones that are driven and academically motivated have endless opportunities. there's plenty of money out there for education. in my state, we have the bright futures scholarship which covers 100% of college tuition if you can pull off a 4.0 in high school. if it slips down a 3.0, you're eligible for 75%. i'm sure there are other state scholarship programs as well. in addition to that, i was eligible for something like $5500/yr in federal grants. and i was making a decent income at the time. inner city incomes would be eligible for more. considering community college costs about 2400/yr that's a full ride alone for training in any technical field they so choose.

but close enough to catch glimpses. i hate to point this out but when you don't live that life its very easy to judge based on misconcieved notions.

possibly. but the bottom line is that there are those who go out and tough it out and make it out to the other side. again, i'm not really concerned with whether or not it's easy. the point is, they have the opportunity to take their futures into their own hands.

i have you ever thought that these students are failing because they were not prepared well enough?

you can pass the blame down the line as far as you like. but for every one that wasn't prepared enough, there's another that took it upon themselves to prepare. lets draw a comparison to nursing school, because obviously it's a challenging accomplishment. you have to learn to adapt your way of thinking, your study habits, your schedule, everything. and it's not an easy adjustment. you can get in there and think man, i wasn't prepared for this. there's nothing i can do. and chances are...your class will be one smaller by the end of the program. or you can freak out, realize how ungodly behind you are, and then get it together and bust ass day and night to keep up with a c.

hurdles imagine living your whole life in poverty. imagine your parents working two fulltime jobs both just to make ends meet. you're alone by yourself most afternoons because your folks can't afford to put you in basketball or gymnastics. everyday after school you go have to go to the library to study because internet isn't an option, the little money coming in has to go for food, books, and rent. you don't get to on any of the class trips because that extra forty dollars is too much money. try having your power cut off because your parents are down on their luck this month. you don't take sat prep courses you study on your own using books from the local library.

i could sit here and feed you pages of personal experiences. doesn't seem like it would serve much purpose honestly. not everyone gets to go on class trips, or hire expensive tutors.

these are more like potholes then hurdles compared to what some illegals face both here and back home. but even so...they're can be overcome easily if the individual is driven. i'm willing to bet those students who actually do spend their afternoons studying at the library are the ones that have no trouble rising up through the system and accomplishing their goals. but i'm not entirely sure inner city libraries are full of kids studying math or english.

[PhoenixTech, LPN]

silentmind,

thanks for the article but what it is describing is a very public war over the illegal drug markert. "taking it to the streets" is not the same as the inside war the inner city faces each day. might i add that the drug money generated is comparative to, in some cases a few millionaires' salary in the us.

living on the fringes isn't the same as living in the midst and as such you are not the authority on inner city life. period. i think that there's something wrong with the fact that they have to 'reprogram' children at all. yes, it seems tedious to continuosly point out the inconsistancies, but point out i will.

scenario: a male child is born shaking, screaming and crying from the drugs his mother used during her pregnancy. child immediately enters the system and is put in a foster home due to the lack of relatives who could care for him. after a few years he is placed back into his mother's custody because she completed a drug program and for another few years all is well. mother relapses but since the dyfs case is closed, she's in no immediate danger of loosing her child. nice clean clothes become dirty, smelly rags. complete nutritional meals now become beefaroni dinners. the home becomes over run by rodents (animals and humans alike). the child can no longer concentrate in those special programs set up for him by the school system due to his learning disability, acquired from damage in utero. he becomes the target of mean, cruel jokes by the other students and despite him failing his classes, the 'no child left behind' bill that was signed into law guarantees his advancement.

child is now on the verge of teenage years and has seen the 'streets' up close and personal. he knows that the drug dealers are getting that easy money and after seeing a steady progression of men in and out of his mother's bedroom, and his belly continiously growling, he joins 'the game'. he thinks he can help his mother stop tricking for drug money and hold down the bills so they won't be homeless. he drops out of school because there's no money being made during those precious 8hrs when the crackheads are out hustling up funds. he soon learns that the game is alot harder than the rap videos make it out to be and finds himself incarcerated on felony drug charges. he comes out some years later with a jailhouse education that has nothing to do with the books. he's gonna do it different this time. he trys again and winds up back in jail. this time he decides to go straight when he gets out and looks for a job. because of his felony drug charges, there are little career options left to him even if he did decide to go back to school for an education. the warehouse job that accepted him pays too little to support himself, let alone the child he conceived on his first release from prison, when all he was thinking about was 'busting off' in some chick. so he recruits some young kid who was raised very much like he was to sell the drugs for him. kid gets busted, makes a deal and then boom! three strikes, you're out. he goes to jail for life.

there are many variations on this scenario and i won't even get started on the female version where she is loaned out physically to support her mother's habit. all you have to do is watch nancy grace tonight. this cycle gets perpetuated throughout generations and the sad fact is; if maybe even one of these children had had extracurricular activities, h***, a family to start with, they might have suceeded.

don't underestimate the importance of field trips, picture day, football, and any other social activity that enhances a child's self esteem and make them feel a part of. constantly feeling like you don't measure up makes you doubt your whole existance and makes it easier for someone to grasp a quick source of income whether it be financial aid, drug money or welfare. anything to make someone feel like they are in it. life i mean.

i understand your frustration more than you know. i too get frustrated by the students in my college level chemistry class pressing the professor for clues to what's gonna be on the test. i feel like yelling, 'just study everything!' i too hear the comments from some lost souls complaining of not enough resources while passing on the resources already available to them. all i'm saying is that the inner city's plight is no less damaging than the illegals and if you're gonna skip judgement on them, then you should also skip judgement on americans.

[tewdles, RN]

"Btw, detroit...thats doing so horrible and becoming a ghost town? Per capita income comes out to an inhuman $14,000. How does that stack up on a global scale?

Nicaragua - $2779

Honduras - $2793

Cuba - $3000

Bolivia - $3049

Mexico - $10,000

I guarantee you, they're government assistance programs look nothing like what we have. "

Detroit is pretty cold in the winter time. It matters in Detroit if you have running water, electiricity, heat....not so much in the countries you mention. It is not legal to build a shack to live in within the greater Detroit area...so the Detroit poor have one less housing option than in the countries you mentioned. I do visit some poor folk in Detroit who keep chickens for the eggs and meat...much cheaper for them, as long as JOE LAW does not cite them for running a fowl (ok bad humor) of the ordinances.

The fact that the mean income of the "working poor" in Detroit is $14k does not mean that these people are not struggling to survive.