Nurses and the Recession

Kabin · Mar 6, 2008

Nursing is relatively recession proof but still undergoes contraction phases. Talk to some of the older nurses and they will tell you there were times when they couldn't find work. Nursing slowdowns don't have to be in phase with a recession either. Hospitals are large nursing employers and at times have to close their doors. It could be related to state or federal government policies and funding or public migration. Doesn't matter if they are a for profit or non-profit, they have a business plan and need positive cash flow. Non-profit hospitals rely on donations and that can be fickle in an economic downturns. Obviously, ER visits cost the hospital when the patient is unable to pay the bill. Elective surgeries should see a reduction in economic downturns so that impacts almost all nurses: periop, pacu, ICU, medsurg, etc. More layoffs lead to less medically insured Americans and an increased risk for the infamous costly heroic life saving measures at hospitals. Hospitals can only do that for so long. I recall stoic statistics on hospital business viability. About 1/3 of hospitals were close to closing their doors, 1/3 were losing money, and the other 1/3 were making a profit.

MsBruiser · Mar 20, 2008

1)How recession proof to do you feel Nursing is?

Nursing is very recession-proof. It is hard for a hospital to do a quick one-time layoff of BEDSIDE nurses to boost the bottom line. Hospital censuses (sp?) are too variable for layoffs to be a viable solution. Can't say the same for the myriad of other RNs (educators, etc.) who do not do patient work. Hospitals may slow their hiring and overtime may get scarcer. But bedside nursing is fairly recession-proof as economic cycles do not control when/how people get sick. Nursing is more recession-proof than most other types of industries.

2)Will 1st career nurses start coming back into the market because of layoffs of either them or their spouses?

I do not see the market getting swamped with these people. There may be some isolated instances of this happening but the scenario entails several assumptions - non-working RN spouse and the layoff of the primary breadwinner.

3) Do you think the surge in Nursing Schools opening here will leave us with more Nurses than jobs?

Possibly. That is something I ponder. But remember, the new nursing schools are for-profit institutions. If the demand for RNs drop, enrollment will drop.

A more ominous trend is the expansion of programs such as the Banner Nurse Fellows Program which can cause a glut of nurses - but Banner is still building hospitals and expanding facilities like crazy. Even if Banner graduates 200 nurses a year - they lose way more than that via standard attrition.

But here is my two cents as to why there will most likely not be a huge glut of bedside hospital nurses: hospital nursing is very difficult and stressful for a long-term career. The work is difficult, the hours are long, s**t always seems to roll downhill on to nurses. Even in my short time as a nurse I notice horrendous turnover. Someone is always leaving for greener pastures, a non-bedside position, grad school (NP, CRNA, law school), hospice nursing, a totally different career etc. etc. Couple that with lots of young women in the field (having babies, moving due to spousal transfers) and there will usually be a steady demand for RNs. Perhaps overtime may get limited in some departments but the essential demand will remain. The field is very, very transient by nature - at least here in Phoenix.

4) Hopefully, this is not a touchy subject, how would Universal Healthcare effect the Nursing profession?

Probably not much. The US has a growing population (legally and illegally) and a rapidly aging population. There will be a need for healthcare. Even if some hospitals do not survive, others will expand to pick up the slack. Perhaps there will be a growth of community health centers to remove cost burdens from ERs - but that is a reallocation of FTEs rather than the elimination of positions. I think we will feel the effect of Universal Healthcare first in our paychecks (higher taxes) than in the direct loss of RN employment.

Thank you to all who respond.

Knit1Purl2 · Mar 20, 2008

1)how recession proof to do you feel nursing is?
4) hopefully, this is not a touchy subject, how would universal healthcare effect the nursing profession?
probably not much. the us has a growing population (legally and illegally) and a rapidly aging population. there will be a need for healthcare. even if some hospitals do not survive, others will expand to pick up the slack. perhaps there will be a growth of community health centers to remove cost burdens from ers - but that is a reallocation of ftes rather than the elimination of positions. i think we will feel the effect of universal healthcare first in our paychecks (higher taxes) than in the direct loss of rn employment.
thank you to all who respond.

thank you stopnik for answering all of my questions. i guess during one of those rare moments when i am obsessing :bugeyes: i thought about this. also in my attempt to keep the cobwebs from taking over my brain while i wait i have been taking classes to apply for asu and grand canyon. i am also getting ready to take spanish for healthcare on rio. my husband minored in spanish in college and it is amazing what a difference it makes here, in every setting. i saw recently where phoenix college is holding an informational where they are starting a new bilingual program. i looked into the one at south mountain but i was not competant enough in my spanish to apply. i see this as a trend also with bilingual programs growing to meet the needs of our population.

thanks for taking the time to answer.:typing:yeah:

MsBruiser · Mar 20, 2008

No problem...just remember hospitals have a tremendous number of RNs who have absolutely nothing to do with patient care...they are the first to go!

Kabin · Mar 21, 2008

No problem...just remember hospitals have a tremendous number of RNs who have absolutely nothing to do with patient care...they are the first to go!

That's for sure. Lots of layers of nursing overhead with administration, management, research, quality, informatics, education, etc. On the otherhand, hospitals usually don't guarantee a given # of hours for patient care RNs either as RNs can get called off any given day when the patient census drops. I've seen nursing pods and even floors close for example when seasonal snowbirds leave Phoenix.

I should add... if it comes to it and the times get difficult, experienced non-patient care nurses can bump patient care nurses for the more stable job.

st4wb3rr33sh0rtc4k3 · Mar 25, 2008

I came out West from Massachusetts because of the wealth of Nursing jobs here. I was laid off in Massachusetts, last year. So I am sure that you will definately find employment. Don't fret.

MsBruiser · Mar 25, 2008

I should add... if it comes to it and the times get difficult, experienced non-patient care nurses can bump patient care nurses for the more stable job.

Unless they were absolutely desperate - I doubt it. Too much work...

Kabin · Mar 28, 2008

That's for sure but the scenario would be to lose your job, benefits, etc or work the floor till things pick up again. I'm amazed seeing near retirement aged nurses hustling on the floor.