Nurses fired for refusing flu vaccine

Garethaus · Jan 5, 2013

Thanks for the link provided of ingredients in Afluria and others like it.

Well, I see that some of the single doses have no thimerosal or aluminium in them. That's good.

However it is still indicated that some of the ingredients in Afluria have neurotoxic capabilities. Is the quantity of the ingredient too little to matter? Really? Is it, I have doubts these days about the benefits of vaccines.

Always with these vaccines these days it seems with a little research I find out something negative about it, and more negative and more negative news about it that would prevent me recommending them for the benefit of the health of the patient.

I believe that vaccines are linked to autism for a number of reasons, mostly related to ingredients like thimerosal and aluminium. Seeing that Afluria has none of these ingredients challenges my view - I like to be challenged - although I feel with more research I'll find that something like Afluria is just as destructive to a childs neurological capabilities as a vaccine containing thimerosal / aluminium.

The trust is gone, do you know what I am saying?

joanna73, BSN, RN · Jan 5, 2013

The flu shot protects you and those with fragile immune systems. Receiving the flu shot is more for the protection of your patients. We are not forced to get the shot, but if there is an outbreak, we cannot attend work. That's fair, IMO. Policies are in place for a reason.

barbarake21 · Jan 5, 2013

I'm 52 years old and have never had the flu. In fact, other than two pregnancies and an ankle injury, I haven't had to go to a doctor in over forty years. I have no philosophical objection to a flu vaccine but I am not convinced of its effectiveness. My other problem with it is that I got my first - and only - flu shot two years ago. Felt fine and had no side effects other than a sore spot on my upper arm from the shot itsef. Well, after two years, that sore spot is still there. I don't understand why since I've had plenty of other shots and never had that reaction but I did with the flu shot.

Kareylea · Jan 5, 2013

Three reasons I think the flu shot is an exercise in futility.

1. The Flu, unlike most of the other conditions which have a vaccine to prevent it, is a MUTATING virus. It changes as it goes. Hence the reason why there are several strains floating around at any one time. There is not a flu virus. There are flu viruses floating around. The best those who make the vaccine can do is guess which one will be most widespread and most virulent. In case of a pandemic, which is what the CDC and WHO and other agencies fear, it will be caused by an entirely new strain which none of us will be protected against. Hence why it will be severe. No one will have immunity. They're playing an odds game here people. And no one but the dealer ever wins in gambling.

2. Any vaccine, regardless, attacks your immune system. No vaccine that I know of at present will give you the disease/virus that it protects against. However, it will lower your immune system allowing other pathogens an opportunity to make you ill. I work in a hospital people and I have children. I am very very rarely sick as are most of my fellow co-workers. I have been exposed to EVERYTHING but Ebola and my immune system rocks. Why would I deliberately lower my immune system, get myself sick and then pass it on to my family AND my patients? And this for a vaccine that might not even be effective for the flu virus passing around in my area?

3. The MMR and polio vaccines are universal or they try to be. One HAS to get it enter any type of school today. It protects us against incredibly dangerous diseases. The flu vaccine is NOT universal and never has been. By its very nature, it cannot be since the vaccine only protects against one strain. One argument for getting the vaccine is to protect the patient against the nurse carrying it. Fine. But since when has a patient existed in a bubble? Aside from the exposure from other sick people in halls, common areas, procedural areas, there is the exposure from the techs, secretaries, case managers, doctors (who see half the community in their practice) family and friends. All of which can enter and leave the room at will, most without any protection to the patient and then proceed to touch, feed, hug, hold hands, bathe and crawl into bed with the patient (I speak of kids here people...sheesh.). Good luck at trying to convince a three year old not to crawl into bed with Mommy. And preventing touch can be just as dangerous as a flu vaccine. When people are sick they NEED touch...not to have people wrap themselves in protection and cower in the doorway and scream their questions. We don't require that family members show proof of immunity. Why are we so insistent that a nurse in the best of health and with a very good immune system would be the culprit in spreading the virus? And has anyone heard of a DOCTOR being fired for refusing a vaccine? I might get my hands on 5-10 patients a night from direct contact. How many patients in the practice and in the hospital has he/she come in contact with?

Well that is my two cents. I have refused to take the vaccine this year. I have already had three brushes where I know I have come in contact with the flu virus taking care of family members or patients. I am still not sick and no, no one caught it from me. That said I have to feed my family and would not have gone as far as the nurses who stuck to their guns and allowed themselves to be fired. But I at least want to salute them for their courage at standing up for their rights and convictions. I doubt I would be able to do the same in such a situation.

hawkfdc · Jan 5, 2013

There comes a time in everyone's life where enough is enough. I reached mine about two and a half months ago and I left direct patient care because I was tired of being force fed CMS regulatory kool aid anymore.

I was shanghai-ed at 4am by the HR nurses in my facility for the flu vaccine and I dutifully took it as I was trying to complete my first year of nursing. Five months later I was sick as a dog with the flu. KareyLea covered this, I got the flu because I picked up another strain, simple as that. Since then I have not taken another flu vaccine.

I just finished nearly three years in home health going from house to house to house every day and never got the flu and never had the flu vaccine. I did get the occasional cold and I wore a mask to protect my patients and their compromised immune systems.

If this truly is tied to CMS mandates re:reimbursement as a previous poster reported (and I have no doubts, just didn't read the article) then y'all enjoy your government ownership. This is not about patient safety, its about money. Ask any home health nurse about 30 day hospital readmissions and you'll hear all you care to about what steps are being taken to keep patients out of the hospital to prevent a readmission. Wake the he** up people.

olddragger · Jan 5, 2013

Kareylea and hawkfdc--i enjoyed reading your posts and I am in total agreement with you.

I was the poster that stated this was tied to money. I worked in a major teaching facility until Dec 2012. I was part of administration via utilization/case management and reimbursement enhancement. This is out I found out the real reason that the shot was mandated.

Mark my words, the day will come that this mandatory vaccination situation will change. Meanwhile research, research,research so that we can present the best factual information to our patients and others.

Perhaps a better vaccine will be developed at some point.

Trilldayz,RN BSN · Jan 5, 2013

Money will make any hospital put their staff through ANYTHING! I am honestly not surprised by that article. I don't take the vaccine myself, as I don't feel comfortable doing so. Ugh, hospital nursing sucks sometimes (well, most times lol).

SNB1014, RN · Jan 5, 2013

forgive me if this was answered, but what would the religious exemption be, exactly?

perhaps i'm an ignorant catholic :wacky:

if i was to play devils advocate i can see that perhaps she is ethically opposed to be *forced* to take in a chemical by her employer, gotcha.

but how does religion play into the flu and immunizations?

HM-8404, BSN, RN · Jan 5, 2013

Mulan--I will be glad to share why I think hospitals all of a sudden went to the mandatory influenza vaccinations.
MONEY!
Read this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=acute%20care%20hospitals%20medicare%20reimbursement%20affected%20by%20influenza%20vaccination%20percentages%3F&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fnhsn%2FPDFs%2FHPS-manual%2FOperational-Guidance-HPS-Flu-Vaccination-Sum-Acute-Care.pdf&ei=enTnUPTnD8ii2wWY34GQBw&usg=AFQjCNEocdS4r_ztGUsyHQHdZg-m7aU2Gg
What it is basically is saying that hospitals have to report to CMS their percentage of hcw influenza vaccinations. That started in 2012. this year.
If they do not meet the percentage of vaccinations that CMS wants then they can be penalized by a reduction in amount that Medicare reimburses the hospital. Up to 2%. Two percent at the local community hospital equals to approx 30-40 million dollars per year.
If people want to believe that hospitals suddenly developed an interest in protecting their patients from influenza. Think again.
This kind of reminds me how some Nurses thought that hospitals made themselves a no smoking facility in the interest of the patient's health. REALLY???

I'm having a hard time understanding the point being made here. Medicare does not manufacture or sell immunizations. Nor do they receive a portion of the profits from vaccinations from drug companies. They are instead trying to control their costs just as they do by not paying for UTI's or Pressure Ulcers acquired in health care settings.

Perhaps hospitals didn't suddenly develop an interest in protecting patients from influenza, maybe the facts are in from studies that have been conducted over the years. Companies study everything to death. They don't normally implement anything just from knee jerk reactions. They leave that up to the gov't to do since their money is a never ending supply.

PalmHarborMom · Jan 5, 2013

Thanks for the link provided of ingredients in Afluria and others like it.
Well, I see that some of the single doses have no thimerosal or aluminium in them. That's good.
However it is still indicated that some of the ingredients in Afluria have neurotoxic capabilities. Is the quantity of the ingredient too little to matter? Really? Is it, I have doubts these days about the benefits of vaccines.
Always with these vaccines these days it seems with a little research I find out something negative about it, and more negative and more negative news about it that would prevent me recommending them for the benefit of the health of the patient.
I believe that vaccines are linked to autism for a number of reasons, mostly related to ingredients like thimerosal and aluminium. Seeing that Afluria has none of these ingredients challenges my view - I like to be challenged - although I feel with more research I'll find that something like Afluria is just as destructive to a childs neurological capabilities as a vaccine containing thimerosal / aluminium.
The trust is gone, do you know what I am saying?

Garethaus- You do realize that the doctor that did the studies indicating a correlation between vaccines and autism is a fraud, right? He has lost his license and career due to this fraudulent study that sparked a huge increase in parents not vaccinating their kids. By continuing to spew this misinformation, especially by medical personnel, it only adds fuel to the fire.

RNnbakes · Jan 5, 2013

Did any one read this part of the article? So 3 veteran nurses out of 8. Why only these eight? The one nurse in the story had spent 22years there.

"The hospital said in a statement that it implemented the mandate to promote patient safety based on recommendations from the American Medical Association, the American Nurses Association, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It announced the mandate in September. Of the hospital's 26,000 employees statewide, 95 percent complied. That means 1,300 employees did not comply, but only eight were fired."

An Indiana hospital has fired eight employees, including at least three veteran nurses, after they refused mandatory flu shots, stirring up controversy over which should come first: employee rights or patient safety. The hospital imposed mandatory vaccines, responding to rising concerns about the spread of influenza.

Ethel Hoover wore all black on her last day of work as a nurse in the critical care unit at Indiana University Health Goshen Hospital. She said she was in "mourning" because she would have been at the hospital 22 years in February, and she's only called out of work four or five times in her whole career , she said.

RNnbakes · Jan 5, 2013

Why didn't they fire 1,300 employees if they were so concerned about the "mandatory flu vaccines"