No more such thing as "2nd Coursers" ?

suzanne4, RN · Dec 15, 2007

There have been issues with quite a few of the second courser programs cutting their hours even shorter and then falsifying documents and this has caught up with them.

Sorry, but glad to see it happening now. There is an overabundance of nurses being trained and not enough jobs for them to accept when they finish school. The US has a retrogression in place that is expected to last for years in most cases, and many of the other countries require at least two years of experience, but then no place to get it.

Whether or not you need to retake classes will depend on when you completed them the first time for most programs. Also be aware that we are expecting to see a mandatory two years of service come up before you will be permitted to leave to work in another country coming up soon as well.

w_padre, LPN, LVN · Dec 15, 2007

There have been issues with quite a few of the second courser programs cutting their hours even shorter and then falsifying documents and this has caught up with them.
Sorry, but glad to see it happening now. There is an overabundance of nurses being trained and not enough jobs for them to accept when they finish school. The US has a retrogression in place that is expected to last for years in most cases, and many of the other countries require at least two years of experience, but then no place to get it.
Whether or not you need to retake classes will depend on when you completed them the first time for most programs. Also be aware that we are expecting to see a mandatory two years of service come up before you will be permitted to leave to work in another country coming up soon as well.

this is very true... its really happening and too bad most of us are affected ;-( then there's this retro thing... ;-((

g_l · Dec 15, 2007

this is very true... its really happening and too bad most of us are affected ;-( then there's this retro thing... ;-((

this may ruffle a few feathers...

a mentor of mine(who is persuading me to enter school nursing) mentioned that a real nurse will not be affected by such things. why? cuz the profession is NOT a money cow.

most see it as a ticket to something bigger(for them). but then why do the other aspects of nursing(school, occupational, public health/community) get laid by the wayside? look at public schools in metro manila? do you see nurses? look at health centers: there aren't enough professionals to do the job. look at rural health units: most are greatly understaffed and some close down.

i'll bet that if they include these fields in the work experience (and given priority) most will flock to these like bees to honey. it's understandable though, it's a dog-eat-dog world out here. we are so desperate to survive and to prosper that we go to great lengths, putting aside important things which sadly include quality training.

There have been issues with quite a few of the second courser programs cutting their hours even shorter and then falsifying documents and this has caught up with them.
Sorry, but glad to see it happening now. There is an overabundance of nurses being trained and not enough jobs for them to accept when they finish school.

most of my professors share your sentiment!

as a side note, i want to share something constantly drilled to our heads by our instructors:

are you a PROFESSIONAL or a PROFEESSIONAL?

beauty4ashes · Dec 15, 2007

Also be aware that we are expecting to see a mandatory two years of service come up before you will be permitted to leave to work in another country coming up soon as well.

Does that apply to everyone, including dual citizens?

Well, it is good to know they are doing something to make sure the programs are competent.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 15, 2007

Dual citizens are affected by whatever rules that are in place there and may find things even harder. We are starting to see some states are going to require the NLE again be completed before they will be permitted to sit for the NCLEX exam as once was the requirement. And if a dual citizen, they this will apply to you, as well as the two year work requirement.

Hospitals in the US are shying away from hiring directly from there due to the fact that quite a few were not able to complete their orientation period due to lack of skills. I am sure that I am going to get flamed by some for this, but this is what is happening in the US right now, and even in CA as we speak.

There have been issues with many of the second courser programs there as well as the IT schools and the others that opened up to cash in on this field. And shame on them. Why in the world is a new grad without any clinical experience as a working RN permitted to be a clinical instructor if they have no experience in the field and working at the bedside? Makes no sense at all yet we are seeing it now quite often.

Many other things that need fixing as well. But that is another thread entirely.

Glad that they continue to clean up things there and go back to how things were and that is when the best nurses were coming out of PI, it just is not the same now.

g_l · Dec 15, 2007

Hospitals in the US are shying away from hiring directly from there due to the fact that quite a few were not able to complete their orientation period due to lack of skills. I am sure that I am going to get flamed by some for this, but this is what is happening in the US right now, and even in CA as we speak.

funny, we used to joke about the local license exam. what if it was patterned after the local dentistry license exam, where you have both a theory and a practical test? it's not feasible due to the sheer volume of examinees; but still, it gets you wondering. i, for one, have a high possibility of failure if that happened.

Why in the world is a new grad without any clinical experience as a working RN permitted to be a clinical instructor if they have no experience in the field and working at the bedside? Makes no sense at all yet we are seeing it now quite often.

well, one could work as a clinical instructor for caregivers as long as you have a bsn degree here(i was offered work, i declined). i believe that there is a mandate that you have a masters in nursing before teaching, but sadly some slip though the cracks. well, it is a fat money cow... :devil:

p.s. any flaming, insults, barbs and death threats are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! :trout:

zkcal10 · Dec 16, 2007

this is GOOD news!!! its nice to see some action done with regards this...

i agree with suzanne.. hospitals here dont aim in recruitinf nurses from foreign lands, they have programs to make US citizens be into the nursing path. and also they give BIG emphasis on their retention than recruitment... just my observation. open for comments

lawrence01 · Dec 16, 2007

well, one could work as a clinical instructor for caregivers as long as you have a bsn degree here(i was offered work, i declined). i believe that there is a mandate that you have a masters in nursing before teaching, but sadly some slip though the cracks. well, it is a fat money cow..

Yes, there is supposedly a mandate to have an MAN to be qualified to teach nursing subjects but just as you said, they are not following it.

There are however, exemptions. Usually those with medical degrees can teach basics such as Anatomy, Physiology and the like but to teach a nursing subject will still need to have a MAN. And is unfortunate that newly grads are being offered CI positions and teaching positions as well. I even know people who cannot pass the CGFNS exam and are teaching.

I also think people who have not passed the NCLEX exam should not be reviewers in NCLEX review programs, regardless of their experience in teaching or being a nurse or being in the top 10 in the local boards. You cannot teach what you have not experienced yet. The most they can do should be local board exam reviews. I totally disagree that the above criterias to be premiums in choosing w/c ones are qualified to review nurses for NCLEX, esp. since it can really be done on a self-review anyway. If there is any thing that NCLEX reviewers should teach their students is how to study properly for NCLEX, w/c ones to concentrate on, share how their experience in taking one, etc... and those can only be imparted by some one who have actually taken it and passed it. Perceived "smart" people fails the NCLEX all the time. Even MD-RNS, long-time nursing academicians, experienced RNS, top local board passers fail NCLEX all the time. They will only impart what they did wrong when they are allowed to give reviews.

Glad you declined. I know it was hard to since finding a decent paying job in PH is rare. But there are still people like you that declines lucrative teaching jobs, CI positions, because they do not want to be part of it and contribute to it. The money is not worth it.