Needs of the Military First: O.R or NICU

PRicanRN · Sep 2, 2008

well your husband is definitely true about the army going up the ranks quicker. They will reach cpt. in 36 months as opposed to the AF which will take 48 months to reach cpt. From there I don't know but I definitely see a lot younger majors in the army than I do in the AF. They deploy for a longer time than the AF does but I hear the AF is changing deployments to six months, depending on need. ICU tend deploy more as there is more of a shortage, but not necessarily NICU. Are you trying to find which one deploys the least? Straight out of nursing school though you will not get a position in one of these areas, unless you have prior experience. You will be on a med-surg floor and then after a certain amount of time you can apply to a different area.

EvaLuna · Sep 2, 2008

well your husband is definitely true about the army going up the ranks quicker. They will reach cpt. in 36 months as opposed to the AF which will take 48 months to reach cpt. From there I don't know but I definitely see a lot younger majors in the army than I do in the AF. They deploy for a longer time than the AF does but I hear the AF is changing deployments to six months, depending on need. ICU tend deploy more as there is more of a shortage, but not necessarily NICU. Are you trying to find which one deploys the least? Straight out of nursing school though you will not get a position in one of these areas, unless you have prior experience. You will be on a med-surg floor and then after a certain amount of time you can apply to a different area.

Thanks for the reply P.R RN! Arriba Con La Raza! Fellow PuertoRican here! :yeah: In regards to your question I am trying to find which deploys the least. My husband is a disabled veteran and I have concerns about long deployments. I think he leans more towards Army because of bitter experiences in the AF. He hates to talk about it but back when he was in (early 80's) there weren't many minorities in the AF and the way I understand it he had to deal with a lot of nonsense. He spent 7 years in Ramstein, Germany and he says there was a lot of stupid stuff that went on with the establishment at the time. He also says that the AF is much more "political" than the Army. I was astounded when he switched to Army upon rejoining after a brief time out. He acclimated better in the Army and went through the ranks quicker than the time it took him to make SSGT in the AF. He fought long and hard for his 100% service connected but he never badmouths the military (and I know he would love to relive the lifestyle vicariously through me :wink2: especially with me being an officer ) I dislike Med/Surg (worked as an LPN for many years before pursuing a teaching degree) My plan is to garner at least 1 year of O.R. experience before I apply so that I'll have more leverage as to assignments, bases, etc. Could you clarify for me what rank a BSN/O.R nurse would come in with? A former friend of my DH who was a nurse recruiter told me that for critical care you come in with higher rank, provided of course that you have your credentials. Do you know if this is true? Sorry for the long post...trying to do my due diligence :typing before taking this life changing step. Thanks again Boricua!

allnurses Guide · Sep 2, 2008

Thanks for the reply P.R RN! Arriba Con La Raza! Fellow PuertoRican here! In regards to your question I am trying to find which deploys the least. My husband is a disabled veteran and I have concerns about long deployments. I think he leans more towards Army because of bitter experiences in the AF. He hates to talk about it but back when he was in (early 80's) there weren't many minorities in the AF and the way I understand it he had to deal with a lot of nonsense. He spent 7 years in Ramstein, Germany and he says there was a lot of stupid stuff that went on with the establishment at the time. He also says that the AF is much more "political" than the Army. I was astounded when he switched to Army upon rejoining after a brief time out. He acclimated better in the Army and went through the ranks quicker than the time it took him to make SSGT in the AF. He fought long and hard for his 100% service connected but he never badmouths the military (and I know he would love to relive the lifestyle vicariously through me :wink2: especially with me being an officer ) I dislike Med/Surg (worked as an LPN for many years before pursuing a teaching degree) My plan is to garner at least 1 year of O.R. experience before I apply so that I'll have more leverage as to assignments, bases, etc. Could you clarify for me what rank a BSN/O.R nurse would come in with? A former friend of my DH who was a nurse recruiter told me that for critical care you come in with higher rank, provided of course that you have your credentials. Do you know if this is true? Sorry for the long post...trying to do my due diligence :typing before taking this life changing step. Thanks again Boricua!

You will come in as a 2Lt with 6mo times towards 1Lt if you have one year experience as an RN. We don't get anymore time towards rank with any nursing speciality coming in the AF. The only way to come in with higher rank is with more RN experience or an MSN or higher nursing degree.

I wouldn't consider the Army if you are worried about deployments. You are pretty much assured 12+month deployments with sometimes only 6months off between deployments. Also, you may want to consider USPHS if deployments are a really big hang up for you. You can start out as an O-2 in USPHS, you have almost total say so in where you are assigned, and the benefits/pay are basically the same.

lifeafter40 · Sep 2, 2008

I wouldn't consider the Army if you are worried about deployments. You are pretty much assured 12+month deployments with sometimes only 6months off between deployments. Also, you may want to consider USPHS if deployments are a really big hang up for you. You can start out as an O-2 in USPHS, you have almost total say so in where you are assigned, and the benefits/pay are basically the same.

I was under the impression that the Army had reduced NC deployment to 6 months (179 days)... (under most circumstances) is this no longer true?

allnurses Guide · Sep 2, 2008

I was under the impression that the Army had reduced NC deployment to 6 months (179 days)... (under most circumstances) is this no longer true?

They may have, but the Army still doesn't have a set timeline between deployments as in the AF. Besides the Army has bad habit of extending deployments.

The Little Greek · Sep 3, 2008

I'm a new to nurse to the AF so I'm far from an expert on the matter, however I met with my Chief Nurse today and she told me that the AF is hurting for NICU nurses right now. I'm sure OR nurses are in short supply too, but because I'm an OB nurse and she's a NICU nurse, we just happened to be on the subject.

As for promotions this is the career path I was presented with today:

2 Lt for 2 years, then to 1 Lt

1 Lt for 2 years, then to Capt

Capt for at least 6-7 years before pinning Major

Promotion rates as follows:

2 Lt--100% promotion (automatic)

1 Lt--100% promotion (automatic)

Capt--100% promotion (automatic)

Major--90% promotion

Lt Col--70% promotion

Col--50% promotion

Granted the timeline is basic but it gives you an idea. My Chief Nurse also said that the AF is working on tweaking the career ladder to make promotions happen in a more timely manner. She didn't say this would happen soon, just that it was being considered.

I came in as a 1 Lt (Master's Degree) and will pin Capt in one year (due to credit given for previous nursing exp).

PRicanRN · Sep 3, 2008

ya from what I have heard from friends of mine previously in the AF, the AF was not a good place to be in the early 80's. Minority wise I don't think you will have a problem with that now. So don't let that be the deciding factor. Like WTBCRNA said they give you half time towards promotion for every yr you have experience as an RN. I came in with ER experience so I was able to get assigned to ER. Also like previously stated you will deploy for much longer in the army, my RN friends in the army are still getting deployed for a yr at a time; so if it is being shortened it hasn't been yet.

allnurses Guide · Sep 3, 2008

Those statistics for Major and up are WAY OFF!!! I know that is probably what your chief nurse quoted, but we did the numbers with our chief nurse who used to be at Wilford Hall (Col Schaffer) and those numbers for Major and up are probably at least double the actual amount that get promoted.

The average time to pin on Major is still about 14 yrs total if you start out as a new grad which is 2-4yrs longer than any other branch or line side officers.

Just my 2cents for what it is worth.

I'm a new to nurse to the AF so I'm far from an expert on the matter, however I met with my Chief Nurse today and she told me that the AF is hurting for NICU nurses right now. I'm sure OR nurses are in short supply too, but because I'm an OB nurse and she's a NICU nurse, we just happened to be on the subject.
As for promotions this is the career path I was presented with today:
2 Lt for 2 years, then to 1 Lt
1 Lt for 2 years, then to Capt
Capt for at least 6-7 years before pinning Major
Promotion rates as follows:
2 Lt--100% promotion (automatic)
1 Lt--100% promotion (automatic)
Capt--100% promotion (automatic)
Major--90% promotion
Lt Col--70% promotion
Col--50% promotion
Granted the timeline is basic but it gives you an idea. My Chief Nurse also said that the AF is working on tweaking the career ladder to make promotions happen in a more timely manner. She didn't say this would happen soon, just that it was being considered.
I came in as a 1 Lt (Master's Degree) and will pin Capt in one year (due to credit given for previous nursing exp).

tennell1978 · Sep 3, 2008

If you dont want to join the military you can work for them as a civilian and still make good money.

just_cause, BSN, RN · Sep 3, 2008

Good thread,

I just want to point out that using the speed of promotion in order to support a branch of service decision is not necessarily a good idea.

Initially the speed of rank is very appealing. However, rank progression is based on the rank model for that branch (ie infantry, nursing, signal each have particular ratios / slots for certain ranks) and the manpower demands. If you see an area with a much quicker promotion rate it is likely that there is a manpower shortage and people continually leave. If you are looking for a career in a branch with higher promotion rates then you are actually less likely (overall) to stay until retirement....and at that point the speed of rank truly doesn't matter That being said - I like the Army - but perhaps if you look at retention numbers then perhaps maybe more people prefer to stay with the AF - as an example.....

allnurses Guide · Sep 3, 2008

Good thread,
I just want to point out that using the speed of promotion in order to support a branch of service decision is not necessarily a good idea.
Initially the speed of rank is very appealing. However, rank progression is based on the rank model for that branch (ie infantry, nursing, signal each have particular ratios / slots for certain ranks) and the manpower demands. If you see an area with a much quicker promotion rate it is likely that there is a manpower shortage and people continually leave. If you are looking for a career in a branch with higher promotion rates then you are actually less likely (overall) to stay until retirement....and at that point the speed of rank truly doesn't matter That being said - I like the Army - but perhaps if you look at retention numbers then perhaps maybe more people prefer to stay with the AF - as an example.....

Nice example, but there is a little more to it than that with the AF. The AF actually gave away some of its' Major slots to the MSC corps years ago and has been fighting to get them back. Overall, I would agree with you that is the majority of what is happening in the Army and the AF. There is also a bad history in the AF of keeping nurses who can no longer deploy/do regular PT/join in on deployment exercises etc, so these nurses eventually become Majors and then sit there behind a desk working 0730-1630 M-F. All the while holding up the progression of Captains who can deploy and our basically taking the slots for these Majors on deployments.