Misconception about CNA's by CNA's (re:meds/treatments/licenses)

Cute_CNA, CNA · Oct 24, 2005

So, uh, could you clarify the point you're making? Are you saying all CNAs are that way, or just the ones you encountered?

I don't consider myself to be "just like an LPN," ever. I don't even consider myself as a nurse. I work under the licensed staff, not alongside them. Your CNAs should not consider themselves to be like licensed staff, either.

I've never heard of an LNA until now. I did find a link: http://www.fahc.org/Human_Resources/lna_course.html. Other than the routine specimen collection, from this description, it sounds almost identical to being a CNA. I don't understand why it's a "license," however. I just have a certificate.

http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/licertoccs/nurselna.htm This is similar, as well.

It also says in the above links that the LNA works UNDER LPNs and RNs.

I don't see anything in these links that mentions meds.

HappyNurse2005, RN · Oct 24, 2005

So, uh, could you clarify the point you're making? Are you saying all CNAs are that way, or just the ones you encountered?

No, those 2 just had misconceptions. I can't speak for all CNA's, because I make no claims to know what other CNA's think. (or anyone else for that matter)

Cute_CNA, CNA · Oct 24, 2005

It was just so odd. I guess it bugs me for them to have such an inflated sense of what they can/should be able to do, and say they are just like a LPN. Wanna be an LPN? Go to school.

When you said "them," it was a bit ambiguous. "Them" could mean all CNAs, or just the ones you mentioned. That's why it's important to clarify.

HappyNurse2005, RN · Oct 24, 2005

When you said "them," it was a bit ambiguous. "Them" could mean all CNAs, or just the ones you mentioned

Again, THEM referred to the 2 ladies I was talking about. I dont like to give identifying details, so I say "them", "they" and "the CNA's", etc.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2005

Let me clarify this question for you. The state of Vermont calls their nursing assistants Licensed Nursing Assistant rather than a Certified Nursing Assistant. It is, however, the same job description as a CNA. They can be trained in a number of different types of schools or facilities. When they are able to take the title of LNA they are on a registry that is maintained by the Vermont Board of Nursing. This is how Vermont keeps track of the nursing assistant practice. The state will give reciprocity to CNAs who come from other states. Like licensed nurses they have to renew this LNA biennially and pay a $25 renewal fee. In order to renew and remain on the registry they must be actively engaged in working as nursing assistants. LNAs must work under the supervision of a licensed nurse just as any other nursing assistant across the country. The Vermont law very clearly states that a LNA cannot practice nursing or represent themselves as nurses. It sounds like this aide you're talking of was just trying to impress you with her title and perhaps make herself seem important in your eyes.

DusktilDawn · Oct 24, 2005

Was talking to some CNA's at work today. ONe of them is from another state originally, and had mentioned how not only did she have her CNA
the 2 CNA"s were saying how in the nursing homes they could give meds, etc. the CNA from another state said how she could do meds and treatments, so you know, she was "just like an LPN, but I didn't do assessments" the other one agreed and said" you don't get paid as good"
Just like LPN's? I didn't even begin to say how I thought it was a crappy idea for anyone other than LPN or RN to give meds, so as not to alienate coworkers (esp since its a moot point in the hospital). And now, giving meds and doing "treatments" (though she didn't specify what the treatments were) make you "just like an LPN".
THen she told me how she was an LNA-a nursing assistant with her own license. So that she was ultimately responsible for her own butt, the nurse wasn't. I can't imagine that's true anywhere, that the RN isn't responsible for the NA duties, just because the na has a liscense? I told her that in this state the RN is ultimately responsible for the NA.
It was just so odd. I guess it bugs me for them to have such an inflated sense of what they can/should be able to do, and say they are just like a LPN. Wanna be an LPN? Go to school.

It's not surprising that with certain skills that used to fall under the scope of the LPN/RN practices now being "delegated" to UAPs there are now misconceptions such as this (not with all but with some). Now with CMAs/MNAs/CMTs the lines become even further confused.

THen she told me how she was an LNA-a nursing assistant with her own license. So that she was ultimately responsible for her own butt, the nurse wasn't.

Interesting links Cute CNA, it looks as though perhaps in a few areas NAs are licensed. Unfortunately HappyNurse's co-worker is not correct about the nurse not being ultimately responsible. Sometimes the misconception in regards to responsiblity can also create the wrong perception in regards to accountablity.

I work under the licensed staff, not alongside them. Your CNAs should not consider themselves to be like licensed staff, either.

Cute CNA, this quote bothers me. Nobody works under me, they work in collaboration with me to ensure quality patient care.

Cute_CNA, CNA · Oct 24, 2005

Cute CNA, this quote bothers me. Nobody works under me, they work in collaboration with me to ensure quality patient care.

It doesn't need to. When I say I work "under" them, that means to me that they supervise me, though we are part of a team. Sorry for the confusion.

Gennaver, MSN · Oct 24, 2005

Hello Happy Nurse,

Now I am a student and learning more and more about those delegated tasks that I was institutionally authorized to perform as an unlicensed assistive personel.

Ridiculous and dangerous. Not that I intentionally ever did wrong but, there were times that I just knew that there was more to what I was supposed to know, and as a current student nurse I am learnign it.

Some days I fume to myself at how risky one of my former employers has been. Not necessarily with my actions but, some of my former coworkers. TSK. Even as simple as inserting a foley catheter I have watched more than one patient care tech, (and even a nurse) remove an incorrectly routed foley out of the lady parts and slip it right back into the urethra! yep, one did it three times in a row! EGADS. I felt very confident and aware of my tasks, and understood the implications and physiology. Not all of my coworkers really felt the same, some were just 'doing a job'.

The only time that I truly, truly felt that something was out of line was where I was the only uap that my hospital had transferred to one of the healthcare clinics to work alongside the LPNs, RNs, and MAs. There is no way on this green earth that I think I should have been taking patient histories for their visits. I mean, sure, I do not think I did a bad job but, duh, there were things...okay, you get my point.

Sometimes institutions are nipping their dollars and I think they may get a little too carried away with authorizing tasks for delegation. imho

Gen

DusktilDawn · Oct 24, 2005

It doesn't need to. When I say I work "under" them, that means to me that they supervise me, though we are part of a team. Sorry for the confusion.

I guess it's just I always preferred the term "collaboration." I guess "under me" sort of reminds of being "beneath" another person (in a snobby way), I do understand that this is not how you meant it. I think we are both in agreement that it is all about teamwork.:)

I was at work when I posted, therefore a rushed response. I should have worded my response better.