MA's being used as "nurses"

ratchit · Feb 3, 2001

Chili,

I've read several of your posts recently and have enjoyed the thought they provoke. But (and there always is one!), I think I see where some of your frustration with nurses arises. You seem to take offense when someone says you are not a nurse.

I am an RN. I completed a nursing program, and passed boards.

You are a CNA. You recently graduated from college (congrats!) with (I think) a BS in criminal justice.

To say that I am more important or more valuable as a person because I am a nurse and you are not is wrong. To say that I am a nurse and you are not is just stating fact. To say that I am not knowledgable in the area of criminal justice is not insulting me- it is just fact.

If I tried to fly the plane because hey, I'm educated too, just like the pilots, your concerns would be warranted. I have tons of college credit hours but they aren't in aviation. If someone with any amount of non-nursing training thinks they are safe to practice as a nurse because they are educated in something else, my concerns are warranted.

Your contributions at work should be valued and no one should look down on you personally for being a CNA. But to say that someone with a degree in CJ and a CNA certificate is not a nurse is not an insult.

chili2641 · Feb 4, 2001

Ratchit,

I can assure you I have no desire to be a nurse. I went to school to get out of the nursing field. I started working as a CENA right out of high school and I knew with in a year that nursing was not for me. In college I studied justice and crime. I learned that low wages contributed to crime involvement. I looked around at several cena's and found them to be on welfare and raising their families in poverty. My passion is not for nursing but for social and economic justice! Education is the only way I know to help others advance in our society. I want the nurse aids who want to be nurses to realize they can be nurses. The question that I asked regarding MA's and Nurses was just that a question. I want to also say that I have a lot of respect for the nurses out there. They are doing a job I would never want to do. Some of the NA's not all are coming from the underclass and my mission in life is to educate and empower the underclass in the name of crime prevention. On a seperate note the education debate between members in the nursing field is interesting to me because I never saw a difference between nurses regardless of education. An MA must be quite different I am sorry if I stepped on any toes.

------------------

Nursing assistant

chili2641 · Feb 5, 2001

ratchit · Feb 7, 2001

Chili,

While it is not my lifes work, I also feel for the undereducated and wish there were higher standards for housing, nutrition, and education for all. I see the effects of lack of education and resources everyday. And these people need advocates.

But between the "you nurses crack me up" and (to paraphrase) "I thought nurses were supposed to value education, they look down on people who aren't educated" comments, I got the impression that you resented nurses who don't consider CNAs nurses.

I consider CNAs a valuable and very necessary part of the team- I introduce mine as "my right hand man." And I consult their opinion on things they do more often than I do. But I have had to do damage control when CNAs who felt they knew as much as I do told the family they were a nurse and gave wrong information. That is a nasty position to be in. I don't resent people who don't have the education- I do resent people who pretend to be knowledgable in areas they are not to get respect they haven't earned.

I also think that the point needs to be made that it's not only CNAs that are underpaid and underappreciated. I try to thank my CNAs every shift but I am not their boss and have no input into their compensation. I can say thanks but it's up to administration, not staff nurses, to show all healthcare workers how much we are valued.

chili2641 · Feb 7, 2001

Ratchit,

I do understand what you are saying. Nurses are in a great position to have a positive influence on their cna's. These workers look up to you and admire your knowlege and experience. I want nurses to build their cna's up.

------------------

Nursing assistant

chili2641 · Feb 7, 2001

Nurses on this B/B want to work in forensics some are interested in the law. I have an education in both of the above but I do not say what are you thinking you are a nurse!

------------------

Nursing assistant

NorthNurse · Feb 8, 2001

As a home care nurse for years, I can definitely tell when I get an office nurse or a MA, case in point, call to cardiologist to report his patient has bradycardia, with an apical rate of 48, asked by office "nurse" what do you mean by that?, (referring to apical)I don't believe I should have to give an anatomy lesson when I call the Dr's office with report, I feel that greed and the bottom line has moved many offices into recruiting MA's instead of nurses, they get away with it because the law states the physician can delegate to the MA, but how many times is the physician supervising the MA? I believe it continues to erode the profession of nurses overall and public perception of nurses. Since they do not know the MA is not a NURSE.

Originally posted by chili2641:
Nurses on this B/B want to work in forensics some are interested in the law. I have an education in both of the above but I do not say what are you thinking you are a nurse!

Certmedassistant.com · Mar 1, 2001

A FYI message from the Advanced Medical Assistant of America www.certmedassistant.com regarding training and credentials of the professional medical assitant:

It is not uncommon, that medical assistants, regardless of their affiliation are working side by side with nursing staff in a medical office or clinic.

Most employers prefer to hire graduates

of formal programs in medical assisting.

Formal programs in medical assisting are offered in vocational-technical high schools, post secondary vocational schools, community and junior colleges, and in colleges and universities.

Medical Assistants perform delegated clinical and administrative duties within the supervising physician's scope of practice consistent with the MA's education, training and experience. Such duties shall not constitute the practice of medicine.

CAAHEP accredits a large number of Medical Assistant Programs.

Medical assisting is a multi skilled allied health profession whose practitioners work primarily in ambulatory settings such as medical offices and clinics. Medical assistants function as members of the health care delivery team and perform administrative and clinical procedures. The clinical procedures and lab techniques include injections, EKG's, vital signs, urinalysis, phlebotomy, assisting in minor surgery and emergency situations. Front office skills include typing, transcription, word processing, patient data collection, insurance claims processing, bookkeeping and billing and collection.

The Medical Assistant Program is divided into classroom and lab instruction modules and an externship program. Students are evaluated in all areas of professional and performance skills. Typing, transcription, word processing and computer billing are evaluated utilizing error control and speed building.

Upon satisfactory completion of the training, students will be qualified to assume entry-level positions as a medical assistant performing the medical procedures, lab techniques and front office duties described above. They now qualify to become a CMA (Certified Medical Assistant) through the American Association of Medical Assistants or an RMA (Registered Medical Assistant,) which is offered by the American Medical Technologists Association.

For information on CAAHEP accredited medical assisting programs:

American Association of Medical Assistants

Department of Accreditation

20 N. Wacker Dr., Suite 1575

Chicago, IL 60606-2903

800/228-2262

Registered Medical Assistants of American Medical Technologists

710 Higgins Road

Park Ridge, IL 60068

847/823-5169

Accrediting Bureau of Health Education Schools

803 W. Broad Street, Suite 730

Falls Church, VA 22046

703/533-2082

------------------

Danni R.CMA

Advanced Medical Assistant of America

www.certmedassistant.com

kewlnurse · Mar 2, 2001

I know this is old but thought i'd blabber anyway. Only LPN's and RN's can call themselves nurses. Otherwise it is fraud, and in this state (NY) it is illegal and unethical, and to be honest, an insult to anybody who took the time and effort ot go to school to EARN that title.

Originally posted by Jeanbean:
Hello all! I work in a private practice office in which I am the only RN. There are several MA's and one LPN. My concern is that the MA's are referred to as "nurses". The patients often do not know that their "nurse" really isn't one. We all have the same job descriptions and duties, and I was told shortly after starting work (by a non-nurse office manager) that they consider MA's, LPN's and RN's to be the same (it is interesting, though, that I am paid an RN wage). We all are responsible for phone triage one day a week. The team leader for the "nursing staff" is also an MA!! Has anyone else run into this type of situation??

maikranz · Mar 3, 2001

Originally posted by Certmedassistant.com:
A FYI message from the Advanced Medical Assistant of America www.certmedassistant.com regarding training and credentials of the professional medical assitant:

It is not uncommon, that medical assistants, regardless of their affiliation are working side by side with nursing staff in a medical office or clinic.

Most employers prefer to hire graduates
of formal programs in medical assisting.
Formal programs in medical assisting are offered in vocational-technical high schools, post secondary vocational schools, community and junior colleges, and in colleges and universities.

Medical Assistants perform delegated clinical and administrative duties within the supervising physician's scope of practice consistent with the MA's education, training and experience. Such duties shall not constitute the practice of medicine.

CAAHEP accredits a large number of Medical Assistant Programs.

Medical assisting is a multi skilled allied health profession whose practitioners work primarily in ambulatory settings such as medical offices and clinics. Medical assistants function as members of the health care delivery team and perform administrative and clinical procedures. The clinical procedures and lab techniques include injections, EKG's, vital signs, urinalysis, phlebotomy, assisting in minor surgery and emergency situations. Front office skills include typing, transcription, word processing, patient data collection, insurance claims processing, bookkeeping and billing and collection.

The Medical Assistant Program is divided into classroom and lab instruction modules and an externship program. Students are evaluated in all areas of professional and performance skills. Typing, transcription, word processing and computer billing are evaluated utilizing error control and speed building.

Upon satisfactory completion of the training, students will be qualified to assume entry-level positions as a medical assistant performing the medical procedures, lab techniques and front office duties described above. They now qualify to become a CMA (Certified Medical Assistant) through the American Association of Medical Assistants or an RMA (Registered Medical Assistant,) which is offered by the American Medical Technologists Association.

For information on CAAHEP accredited medical assisting programs:

American Association of Medical Assistants
Department of Accreditation
20 N. Wacker Dr., Suite 1575
Chicago, IL 60606-2903
800/228-2262

Registered Medical Assistants of American Medical Technologists
710 Higgins Road
Park Ridge, IL 60068
847/823-5169

Accrediting Bureau of Health Education Schools
803 W. Broad Street, Suite 730
Falls Church, VA 22046
703/533-2082

The question is not the practice of medicine.

It is the use of the word "nurse" by a UAP (or his/her employer) who is neither licensed nor a nurse(RN/LPN), and the resulting assumption of a client or family member that, when speaking with "the office nurse", that person is a nurse. CMAs/MAs may think they do "exactly" what I do as a RN, but I assure you, they do not. The level of education and training is not there. Do you want to be held to the same level of accountability as I am? I sincerely doubt it. CMAs perform an invaluable function in both the front and back office, but they are not nurses and need not be referred to as such.

I would also point out that certification of medical assistants is NOT required for practice as such; licensure IS required for practice as a nurse.

Thanks for the website; it is a new one to me.

M2

JulieW · Mar 13, 2001

Mn.linda,

I agree with what you've written. I don't have anything against MAs, and think they serve a wonderful and important purpose in the medical office. I wish our office utilized a multi-tasked MA to help in the front and the back. It would be wonderful to have extra help.

However, I do firmly believe that each dr. should have his/her own NURSE. MAs employed could help with rooming, scheduling, authos, filing, injections, bp checks, etc. I just think that patient teaching, prescription refilling, and triaging should be left to the licensed staff.

I can see how job security issues would scare a lot of office nurses. It's never good when you can be replaced cheaper. That's why it's up to each individual nurse to show how valuable she is to the office she works in. Frequently let the dr.s know when you do something that requries nursing knowledge. Sounds silly but I do this all the time so my dr. doesn't get any crazy ideas about replacing me with a cheaper MA. Not that I think he would, but I do see the concern

Mn.linda · Mar 13, 2001

I work in an office with 10 Dr's each has his/her own asst. 4 of the 10 are Ma's the rest are L.P.N's , as am I. The Ma's are great people I enjoy working with them. My concern is the knowlage base these ladies have . They surely have a wider knowlage of office,billing, and lab then I do. However while they spent their 12mo. learning "all" of that, I as an L.P.N spent 12mo. learning health mantinace,desease process,basic med's applacation, get the picture?If Ma's are doing the same job Nurses are doing, what about the saftey of patient?To have an Ma step in and call herself a nures worries me also in the fact that management does not pay an Ma as they do L.P.N's and will that then risk our job security as office nurses?The wage of the office nurse has always been lower then that of nursing home and hospital( You know the old saying of supply and demand )What will happen to the role of the office nurse if clinic can use Ma's to do what we as nurses are educated to do?Let alone what it will do to the aready low wages..

In closeing just let me say this, I respect the ladies who are Ma's in our office I just question their knowlage and legal right to do what I do.