Letter from a CHP RN denied the union by the CNA

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 21, 2008

I'd like to hear the rest of the story before making up my mind. The OP doesn't even give us a summary of the basic events.

micurn55 · Mar 22, 2008

Check out the Ohio SEIU website: www.seiu1199.org. They have a lot of good links to newspaper articles, videos, etc. about this. I don't buy the arguments by the NNOC, that nog signing union cards makes this company unionism. Too legalistic for me, I guess!

Chico David, BSN, RN · Mar 22, 2008

There is considerable dispute over both facts and interpretation of facts in this one.

I am a CNA member activist, but was only peripherally involved in this.

SEIU Claims that they had a long history of organizing here and had built substantial support which had enabled them to force the boss into giving them this extremely unusual - maybe unprecedented - organizing agreement, under which the boss filed for the election, neither side was allowed to campaign, no showing of interest by the usual signed cards was required, nurses were told by the employer that they were not allowed to even discuss the election and the total time from announcement to vote was only about 8 or 10 days.

During that extremely short time, CNA/NNOC member activists from Ohio and a very few members and staff from California passed out fliers, sent a mailer to the nurses and entered the hospitals and talked to nurses. The total activity was pretty small in so short a time, but it led to the election being cancelled.

The two questions that have to be raised, from our standpoint, are:

1. What exactly was it about this relatively small amount of oppostion activity that made it impossible to hold the election? (One might note that SEIU has attempted to block CNA elections in other places. The elections went ahead as scheduled and CNA won.)

2. If SEIU had, as they claimed spent years building support among the nurses and other workers, why did that support apparently collapse so easily under such relativley modest pressure?

There is a law fobidding "company unions" - sham unions formed by the employer to forstall the formation of a real union. In the view of CNA this was in effect a company union. In other places, SEIU has made deal with employers promising not to strike, promising to support the employer's legislative agenda, promising not to file grievances and promising not to speak ill of the employer in public. All in return for the employer not opposing unionization. Those are the hallmarks of a company union, not a real union that fights for it's members and especially not a union for nurses who have an obligation to advocate for our patients.

for a very different view of this event, go here:

http://lists.portside.org/cgi-bin/listserv/wa?A2=ind0803B&L=PORTSIDELABOR&T=0&F=&S=&P=2302

RN Power Ohio · Mar 22, 2008

Check out the Ohio SEIU website: I don't buy the arguments by the NNOC, that nog signing union cards makes this company unionism. Too legalistic for me, I guess!

I guess, some need to understand the basic fundamental principles of unionism to see why this was wrong.

Others, like those who were taken aback by a letter informing them that they had 8-10 days to decide to have SEIU represent them or no union did not. There were many, many people in Springfield and other CHP cities that "smelled a rat" a mile away.

If one is choosing to participate in the ridicule of an organization that stands for a rights movement as opposed to unscrupulous methods that undermine the fundamental rights of people then one should take the time to learn the law that guides these prinicples- even if it is outside their area of expertise.

Most of the people in this forum are arguing points on a very limited base of knowledge. I understand that this is an opinion forum and not an academic forum, however, it is clear that nurses who are interested in becoming part of the labor movement need a broader knowledge base.

There is an upcoming conference that would be excellent for all to attend NNOC supporters and SEIU supporters alike:

http://labornotes.org/conference

There will be specific forums about nursing and healthcare.

micurn55 · Mar 23, 2008

Check these out from the same paper as the first article on this strand:

Your Letters for Mar. 23 - Hospital Union

Sunday, March 23, 2008

Outsiders made vote impossible

I work at Springfield Regional Medical Center-High St. campus and witnessed some of the outrageous behavior by the California Nurses Association, a so-called "professional" union.

CNA organizers snuck into our hospital and plastered their ugly and negative propaganda in the nursing units. They stood outside and harassed nurses as they were walking in to start their shift. Some of us veterans even had to go escort some of the younger nurses into the building, because they were afraid of how pushy and aggressive the CNA people were being.

We worked so hard to finally have a peaceful vote, and then these people from California come in with nothing positive to say and bad-mouth something we built.

They made it so tense that a fair vote wasn't possible, and that's why we canceled our vote. To say otherwise is simply untrue.

Sally Baker, RN

Springfield

CNA robbed us of our union

As someone who has worked for over three years campaigning for fair union elections at our Springfield and Urbana hospitals, I was appalled and disgusted when I read the commentary from Rhonda Risner Hanos on March 18.

Hanos, it is clear you do not work in one of our Springfield hospitals, because if you did you would know that what you and the California Nurses Association are saying is a twisted series of lies.

Not only were we allowed to talk about the union at work, we did talk about the union at work, and we did it a lot. In fact, our right to do so was explicitly outlined for us in the packets of information we received from SEIU and CHP.

Next, to suggest that we didn't show interest in forming a union with SEIU is absolutely outrageous; in reality, my co-workers and I have campaigned publicly over the past three years to have the opportunity to form a union with SEIU.

For you and CNA to imply that we were somehow hoodwinked in this process is an insult to our intelligence. The CNA is an elitist organization that robbed us of our union. End of story

Lorie Compton, CRT/RCP

Springfield

CNA tactics were offensive

As a lifetime Springfield resident and an 18-year SEIU 1199 member, I would like to thank you for publishing an accurate report on how the California Nurses Association sunk the efforts of SEIU and Catholic Health Partners to conduct a peaceful vote on the right to organize.

The only thing that was sleazy about the efforts of SEIU and CHP was the CNA wasting valuable resources bashing the SEIU.

If I were a CNA member, I would hang my head in shame that my organization was involved in union-bashing activities that resulted in over 8,000 health care workers not getting the opportunity to vote for union representation.

I was greatly offended by the pamphlet that was distributed by CNA declaring that RNs deserve to be a part of a professional union.

As a licensed professional, I have provided a service to our community for more than 25 years and am proud to be represented by SEIU, a professional service union.

I have seen its members stand up for the rights of workers in many different walks of life.

I hope CHP workers will have a chance soon to vote for a union that will back them as professionals instead of having to listen to one that was willing to make the workers sacrificial lambs by the CNA wolves sent out to devour their right to vote.

Dorothy Lemmings

Springfield

justice4peace · Mar 27, 2008

I'd like to hear the rest of the story before making up my mind. The OP doesn't even give us a summary of the basic events.

In the spirit of fairness, ORGANIZE 1199 did not tell you that the OP-ED that he posted was in response to the following OP-ED:

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/o/content/oh/story/opinions/editorial/2008/03/18/sns031808edityourturnnurses.html

Please read it for the other side of the issue...

Organize1199 · Mar 28, 2008

This reminds me of the global warming "debate". The oil companies go out and find the last two "scientists" on earth who will argue it isn't happening. Then they call it "the other side of the story". Anyone can find two "scientists" with actual scientific degrees, willing to say anything...

Similarly, CNA found two RNs who are willing to say anything. Neither works at a hospital, much less a CHP hospital. One (the author of the letter referenced by "justice4peace") is a politician who recently placed 4th in a field of 5, in the (very small) Brooksville City Council race - despite being the incumbent. The other is "RN Power Ohio", an RN who works at a law firm in Cleveland, suing doctors.

Neither of these curious characters had a thing to do with the CHP organizing drive, until at least one of them came to Springfield to lend a hand in CNA's anti-union picketing.

That's not "the other side of the issue". There is no other side of the issue. No more so than two Exxon "scientists" denying global warming.

Sallie Baker, Lorie Compton, Sue Allen and Michaela Silver - these are a few of the many voices we have heard from. These are front-line care givers at CHP hospitals who have been fighting for a union for the last three years. For quality patient care. For the security of their families. For the families of their coworkers, nurses and non-RNs alike.

These hospital caregivers, have risked their livelihoods time and again to stand on ONE side - in SOLIDARITY with their coworkers. There is no other side.

Chico David, BSN, RN · Mar 28, 2008

Looks like more of the same on this thread too. Having nothing else to offer, you fall back on the mainstay of personal attacks. I suppose I could keep this up as long as you could, but I think I'll take a break from it for a while until you find something more interesting to talk about. Or they bring in someone with more interesting ideas.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Mar 28, 2008

When discussing unions there are 3 schools of thought:

a. CNA type union with RN only focus, need for patient ratios, aggressive organizing tactics, and progressive social action agenda is the way to go to improve issues faced by bedside nurses.

b. SEIU type union partners with management, all healthcare workers unite to improve working conditions together, passionately organizes and promotes social change.

c. Unions only take my money and do little to improve actual bedside conditions. I can take care of myself thank you.

These positions all have pluses and minuses. Please remember when posting

From our
Terms Of Service

Debates
We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.
Personal Attacks
Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting another individuals opinion nor name calling and will BAN repeat offenders

When one engages in name calling or devisive posting, only hurts your cause and turns off posters.... also results in loss of membership.

Organize1199 · Mar 28, 2008

NRSKarenRN,

I have written Chico David here, to talk about the point you raised about the conversation being quite negative in other threads.

https://allnurses.com/forums/f323/i-don-t-get-cna-ohio-289547-4.html#post2741030

I think we all appreciate your mediation on that point, especially in the other threads. In this thread I don't see so much in the way of personal attacks, just a serious debate.

That said, for my part, I have talked about who is moving the CNA's message in Ohio. I think that is an honest and fair component of this discussion.

It's important that CNA's volunteers are unrelated to the organizing drive, and that CNA itself did not have anything to do with the organizing drive. I think the contrast between that and the many voices of CHP workers - I just think it's at the heart of what happened here.

On a separate note, I think your analysis of the three schools of thought misses the mark. Parts of it are true and reflect early debate between the AFL and the CIO. The AFL only believed in organizing skilled ("craft") workers. The CIO believed in organizing everyone (united across whole industries). The first model is called "craft unionism" and the second is called "industrial unionism."

I do agree that CNA is an RN craft union, whereas SEIU is an industrial union. These are not derogatory terms, although they may occasionally come out that way, as many of us feel strongly one way or the other.

I (very) respectfully disagree with two elements of your further analysis. In particular I would agree that CNA is aggressive in some senses (it seems to go on strike an awful lot). But it's aggression has, to a very large extent, been targeted at other unions - through raids of SEIU at Tenet and CHW, raids at ANA and UAN unions - and even union-busting drives - that's aggressive, but not really organizing in the union sense.

The other description you use that I think is unintentionally misleading is the first part of your description of SEIU, "partners with management".

We fight management tooth and nail; we bargain hard; we strike when we have to; we run long-term and highly contentious campaigns to win workers the space to organize without being put through the union-busting meat grinder. When management agrees to a fair organizing process, we fight as hard as any union in the country for the best contract we can get & we strike if necessary to get it.

Anytime worker's interests do not align with the boss, we fight the boss.

But human beings in this world have a lot of common interests too. SEIU is a powerful political force, and we seek to use that force to benefit our membership. Most of the time we use that might to defend workers against management aggression. At other times, we use that might to bring in more money for the hospitals our members work at, because we have obtained an agreement that the new money will be used for better staffing, pay and benefits.

Bringing in new money is beneficial to management and workers alike. Our ability to do it changes bargaining, and often allows our members to get more for patient care and their families, while having a less divisive work atmosphere.

Anyway, I know you mean well and I appreciate so much of what you have said. I'm just a bit sensitive about the phrase "partners with management" when it has been used here so often to mean that we are some kind of a yellow dog union. We are nothing of the sort.

Again, I appreciate much of what you have said and will absolutely seek to be a positive voice in this venue.

IN SOLIDARITY

justice4peace · Mar 29, 2008

dear organize 1199,

i can not agree to continue this debate by the ground rules which you have proposed until several inflammatory statements you have recently made are cleared up. your vitriolic diatribe has only solidified the very reason that i would not have a non-rn union represent me. your comments on this cite speak volumes to your lack of knowledge about what the practice of nursing really is. i encourage every reader on this cite to pull up all of your comments and judge for themselves who has been the one who has resorted to threatening, abusive language and personal attacks on others who have tried to add anything to this debate. i am including one of your recent posts so i can point out your misstatements one by one.

this reminds me of the global warming "debate". the oil companies go out and find the last two "scientists" on earth who will argue it isn't happening. then they call it "the other side of the story". anyone can find two "scientists" with actual scientific degrees, willing to say anything...

similarly, cna found two rns who are willing to say anything. neither works at a hospital, much less a chp hospital. one (the author of the letter referenced by "justice4peace") is a politician who recently placed 4th in a field of 5, in the (very small) brooksville city council race - despite being the incumbent. the other is "rn power ohio", an rn who works at a law firm in cleveland, suing doctors.

cna did not “find” the rn who wrote the op-ed in the springfield newspaper; she sought them out.she has watched with great interest in their involvement in passing nurse-to-patient ratios in california and was hopeful that the same type of legislation could be enacted in ohio. the first time she heard them speak was when they came to an ohio board of nursing meeting in 2006 to ask that stronger language be drafted into ohio’s nurse practice act that insured that the rn’s duty was to be the patient’s advocate and to add whistle-blower protection so the rn would not face retaliation if that rn spoke out on the patient’s behalf.

the rn who wrote the letter is a nurse who has worked at an inner-city dayton hospital at the bedside for nearly 20 years without ever leaving that role. she has been an outspoken advocate for patients and co-workers at every turn. to claim that she doesn’t “work at a hospital” is an out and out lie.

you are correct that she lost a bid for re-election last november in brookville. there were five people running for three open seats. if you understood small town politics (“very small”, you wrote, which you implied that her community is apparently insignificant) you would know that the votes were split and she, not being a “local”, lost her bid for re-election. did she leave her role as a community activist? no, she did not; she continues to fight for the health, safety and welfare of her wonderful community and will continue to do so.

in another post you referred to her as “eccentric”; have you ever met her? you also stated that she testified with rn power ohio at a hearing at the statehouse recently. she was there to support the nnoc in their fight for safe nurse-to patient ratios, but she did not testify. that is public record, of course, so you are welcome to research that fact. she will continue to work towards introducing nnoc’s legislation that will insure safety for both the patient and her nurse colleagues throughout the state including testifying at future hearings if necessary. your personal and demeaning attacks on this nurse’s character were not only unnecessary and irrelevant to your post but they were also untrue. unlike you, her name and picture are attached to the op-ed that she wrote. you clearly “googled” her so you know where she lives and even have access to her phone number; so you can write or call her with an apology if you would like to do so.

neither of these curious characters had a thing to do with the chp organizing drive, until at least one of them came to springfield to lend a hand in cna's anti-union picketing.

that's not "the other side of the issue". there is no other side of the issue. no more so than two exxon "scientists" denying global warming.

the other side of this issue is that rn’s do have a choice when it comes to who represents them. your unprofessional behavior has again solidified the very reason that rn’s should represent rn’s. you do not even understand what their role entails. your post has pointed out that you do not even understand that the dual-role that rn’s contribute to society is also very unique.

we can be politicians, lawyers, legal nurse consultants, union organizers, school board members, community activists and a host of other roles which work in concert to assure that the health, safety and welfare of our communities remain in the forefront of everything we do. we can do all of these things and still remain at the patient’s bedside and be their number one advocate.

sallie baker, lorie compton, sue allen and michaela silver - these are a few of the many voices we have heard from. these are front-line care givers at chp hospitals who have been fighting for a union for the last three years. for quality patient care. for the security of their families. for the families of their coworkers, nurses and non-rns alike.

these hospital caregivers, have risked their livelihoods time and again to stand on one side - in solidarity with their coworkers. there is no other side.

i too am a hospital caregiver. i have also risked my livelihood when it comes to speaking out and being an advocate for my patients and my co-workers alike. if you are wondering how i know so much about the rn who wrote the op-ed in the springfield newspaper, it is because i look at her every day in the mirror.