I mean health care, as in: If everyone needs health care, guarantee that everybody gets it.I know, when it comes to health care, it's easy to get into a debate for or against Obamacare. But we nurses see the world through a different lens: our patients. ...
... Every day, as we do our best to care for our patients, nurses see people with chronic disease like asthma or diabetes who can't afford insurance costs or medication. Maybe they're absent from work, tired, and distracted from trying to manage their health on a shoestring. They run the risk of hospitalization. They struggle for a distant unreachable shore hoping something will help. They can't get ahead because their health keeps dragging them down.
And yet the answer isn't on the horizon, the answer is in our pockets, in our hands. It's our taxes. We pay them and we ought to benefit from them.
There's one thing that every American does. Every working American (OK, except the Wall Street crowd) pays taxes. But what do we pay taxes for? Increasingly, we wonder where our money is going, how our money is serving our communities, and how our tax money is helping us and our families. ...
... We're saying that our taxes should pay for our healthcare. It works for seniors, it works for Congress members, and it will work for all of us.
This week, we launched an online campaign, asking voters to demand this from Congress. You can learn more about the online campaign here. ...
There is no denying the fact that an educated and healthy population is good for the nation. I just don't believe the government is the best choice to manage the nations healthcare, look how poorly our public schools are doing, and don't say it's due to lack of funding. If we are going to be paying for everyones healthcare we need to demand better than the ACA offers, better than what the people of Canada or other systems receive. While true, it seems a poor attitude to go with the idea of "well we're paying for it anyway".
What's so wrong with the Canadian system and the systems in other developed countries? They spend a !@#$ of a lot less on healthcare than us and have significantly better outcomes. I would love to have a Canadian-style system in the US (I, too, have been a single-payer advocate for many years (decades).
What's so wrong with the Canadian system and the systems in other developed countries? They spend a !@#$ of a lot less on healthcare than us and have significantly better outcomes. I would love to have a Canadian-style system in the US (I, too, have been a single-payer advocate for many years (decades).
Ok, I'm not bashing the systems of other countries, however one cannot deny they also have their problems. What I'm saying is why settle, why not come up with something better than what we have now, and better than what other countries have? Are you so set on a particular system that you, in essence, attack my comment simply because I suggest America can do better?
Interesting...but I disagree...the world is "grey", is anything but timeless-look at science and reason...does an established theory- say in 1776- that has advanced and changed with more knowledge-dare I say evolve- still remain as the only correct way(view) because a group of people with a narrow view see it that way? If we want progress as human beings and as a "world" we must adapt and change...personally I am sick of people telling me because a bunch of white slave owners etc...(yes I already can hear your rebuttals) wrote something down, that I have to forever adhere to its doctrine. Does not this mechanism-this great work also give us the "freedom" to change it?! Basically this tired argument is the same as saying we need to follow the fairy tale that is the 10 commandments...no basis in reality.
Interesting, you seem to be missing my point, no offense. My point is that principles, morals, values, whatever you may call them are timeless and those upon which the constitution is based are relevant today. I was suggesting that America has strayed from these values and that we would do well to return to them.
Also, you bring up race, are the values expressed in the constitution not relevant due to the race of the people who articulated them? Really, you are bringing race into this discussion? Also, the 10 commandments, throwing religion into the mix as well? I just have to comment. The ideas that we should not kill people or steal from them are fairy tales? These are some of the grey areas you suggest we allow for. In your reality we should allow our morals to change based on the situation. This is what I was suggesting is wrong with American society, we hold no values as absolute, not freedom, not liberty, not life.
Ok, I'm not bashing the systems of other countries, however one cannot deny they also have their problems. What I'm saying is why settle, why not come up with something better than what we have now, and better than what other countries have? Are you so set on a particular system that you, in essence, attack my comment simply because I suggest America can do better?
A) My response to your comment was not in the least meant as an "attack" and I don't really see how you read that into it.
B) Of course the other developed countries' systems "have their problems," but the fact remains that they spend a fraction (as a percentage of GDP, not gross amounts) of what the US does, cover all their citizens, and have better M&M outcomes. I would be v. happy for the US system to have those "problems."
C) If someone comes up with a plan that seems preferable to me than the multiple options that are currently operating in the other developed countries of the world, I will be happy to embrace it. I'm not "so set on a particular system" that I'm not open to considering other options; that's just the system I like best so far of what I've seen.
Interesting, you seem to be missing my point, no offense. My point is that principles, morals, values, whatever you may call them are timeless and those upon which the constitution is based are relevant today. I was suggesting that America has strayed from these values and that we would do well to return to them.
Also, you bring up race, are the values expressed in the constitution not relevant due to the race of the people who articulated them? Really, you are bringing race into this discussion? Also, the 10 commandments, throwing religion into the mix as well? I just have to comment. The ideas that we should not kill people or steal from them are fairy tales? These are some of the grey areas you suggest we allow for. In your reality we should allow our morals to change based on the situation. This is what I was suggesting is wrong with American society, we hold no values as absolute, not freedom, not liberty, not life.
I will not use this forum to debate religion...but, more killing has been done in the name of "thou shall not kill" than any other "man-made" method of control (Actually "killing" is condoned by most of "man's" religion anyway, the true interpretation is "Thou shall not commit murder...) So...to further this discussion, I guess I could understand your intent more if you actually defined what these timeless values are? And again-lets get with the times...then and now-of course race is relevant! No offense but I think an understanding of context may be in order...It has everything to do with the circumstance and way and environment etc...etc...that these "documents" were written. Again-please define these "values" you seem to think we have strayed so far from and in what relevant context do they exist...
Perhaps a quote from Plato might help us to agree/disagree..."Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws..."
To reel in my rant about the constitution I'll stick to just one value or principle, as it relates directly to health care and the ACA. That principle is the idea of limited government. Giving the government total control over healthcare seems to be the final nail in the coffin for freedom and liberty in this country. I feel we are already overly taxed and overly regulated as it is, and this was not what the founding fathers had in mind for this country. We are to be a free people, not faceless numbers in a bloated beaurocracy.
I like Ron Paul's view on healthcare. I loved that guy!
1) Abolish the evil monopolies in the healthcare system. We don't need one government-controlled monopoly either. That will make it worse and put the country more in debt, and we will definitely have less power or voice.
2) Make healthcare more affordable. Competition will put pressure on providers to lower costs.
3) Organize charitable organizations funded by communities, churches, and other donations:saint: (St. Jude does it all the time!), so that doctors and other practitioners can serve their fellow citizens. I know there are some of you doctors and nurses out there who feel a responsibility to help others. Society should help each other my choice, not force.
4) Deduct health care costs from taxes. Really!
I understand where everyone is coming from and fully respect your beliefs, so respect "my" beliefs.
I like Ron Paul's view on healthcare. I loved that guy!
1) Abolish the evil monopolies in the healthcare system. We don't need one government-controlled monopoly either. That will make it worse and put the country more in debt, and we will definitely have less power or voice.
2) Make healthcare more affordable. Competition will put pressure on providers to lower costs.
3) Organize charitable organizations funded by communities, churches, and other donations:saint: (St. Jude does it all the time!), so that doctors and other practitioners can serve their fellow citizens. I know there are some of you doctors and nurses out there who feel a responsibility to help others. Society should help each other my choice, not force.
4) Deduct health care costs from taxes. Really!
I understand where everyone is coming from and fully respect your beliefs, so respect "my" beliefs.
Can you give a specific example of when/where each one of these ideas has been tried and what the outcome was? Also an example of all of them being tried at the same time?
We don't need one government-controlled monopoly either. That will make it worse and put the country more in debt, and we will definitely have less power or voice.
Competition will put pressure on providers to lower costs.
I know there are some of you doctors and nurses out there who feel a responsibility to help others. Society should help each other my choice, not force. 
Really! 
elkpark
14,633 Posts
What's so wrong with the Canadian system and the systems in other developed countries? They spend a !@#$ of a lot less on healthcare than us and have significantly better outcomes. I would love to have a Canadian-style system in the US (I, too, have been a single-payer advocate for many years (decades).