Employer reference in CARNA

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 14, 2009

Hi, i have read through the CARNA application process. Somehow, it failed to discuss the purpose of submitting satisfactory Alberta employer reference. As I understood it is one of the requirements in completing the application. But what is the use of this? Is there number of working hours required before taking the CRNE in Alberta?

Please "cut and paste" the section of the registration process information that says you need an Alberta employer reference.

I've read through the CARNA registration requirements many times (I can probably quote them verbatim) and I cannot recall ever reading that IEN (or any other) applicants are required to submit "satisfactory Alberta employer reference". There IS a requirement for applicants from other jurisdictions in Canada who are applying as working nurses (and not as new graduates) to submit an employer reference to reflect safety and fitness to practice based on a minimum of 225 hours worked within the past 5 CARNA registration years. What that means is the period from October 1 to September 30, which is the CARNA registration year. Our practice permits expire on September 30 of any calendar year. So as of today, the preceding 5 CARNA practice years would be October 1, 2003 to September 30, 2008. It has nothing to do with working in Alberta.

All applicants are required to submit documentation of nursing experience:

"Applicants must provide evidence satisfactory to the Registrar of completing one or more of the following, within the previous five (5) membership years (CARNA's membership year is from Oct. 1 - Sept. 30):

1125 hours of registered nursing practice; or
successful completion of a nursing degree or a nursing program satisfactory to the Registrar; or
successful completion of a nursing refresher program satisfactory to CARNA."

And IENs are required to fill out a form expanding on those experience hours.

"All applicants are also required to submit proof of registration in the country where they were educated and in every other jursidiction where they have worked as an RN in the preceding 5 CARNA registration years:

You must request a verification of both:

your original registered nurse registration in the country where you obtained your nursing education; and
each jurisdiction (state, province, territory) where you have been registered within the current year and over the past five years.

If you did not hold a registered nurse license in the jurisdiction in which you worked, you must request documentation from that jurisdiction to explain why this is the case."

This documentation MUST come directly to CARNA from the regulatory body who granted the permit to practice, otherwise it will be consedered fraudulent.

There is no "hours worked" requirement for writing the CRNE. It is the entry-to-practice exam for Canadian nurses, written by new graduates BEFORE they are permitted to work as RNs. IENs who have already been working as nurses in other countries must write it to prove the adequacy of their education and knowledge.

gemini_star, BSN, RN · Apr 14, 2009

Hi janfrn,

The alberta employee certificate is under the temporary permit requirements and not in CRNE. I got them mixed up since I have a lot of things on my mind weighing pros and cons of applying to alberta or british columbia. I must say, they are both very costly.

How long is the requirement to finish all the registration process in Alberta?

Do you have any idea how much the courses would cost if ever I need to take one?

Thanks in advance.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 15, 2009

I'm afraid I don't have time right now to answer that with any authority since it's nearly bedtime... I have to be up at 5 am to get ready for another hectic day at work. I'll have some time tomorrow night after I get home around 8 pm...

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 16, 2009

Okay, let's see if we can figure this out. Just to let you know, when I moved here from another Canadain province 6 1/2 years ago, long before the upswing in international applications, it took me 2 months and about $1,000 to have my transfer done.

The time frame for completing all the required steps for registration in Alberta can take a really long time, depending on a number of factors. First and foremost is the workload at CARNA. The number of applications they've been dealing with has increased dramatically. They will tell you that it should take about 4-6 weeks to assess an application for eligibility purposes, but that will vary depending on the number of new Canadian grads they're also processing, who will take priority. The month after the results are out for each session of the CRNE is really busy, so April, August and December are HECTIC times for CARNA. Then too, our registration year ends on September 30 each year and they have to process some 30,000+ renewals. Now they're telling us we MUST have our renewals (and our $475) at their office by the end of August to guarantee our papers will be processed by the deadline.

The next factor is beyond CARNA's control. The verifications of education and registration have to come directly from the schools and licensing bodies. They won't even start looking at your application until ALL the documents are in their hands. If the registrars are efficient and get the documentation in the mail quickly you'll have a shorter wait.

So once you have your eligibility established, if you need SEC the application process is pretty simple and doen'st take a lot of time. But you have to be in Alberta to have the SEC so the timing for that will be in your hands. The actual SEC process takes 1-3 days. Then the results take 3-5 weeks to make their way to you. If you have to upgrade, the courses are about 4 months long. Each different area has at least two component classes and tuition runs about $2000 per cluster. And then there's the Bridge to Canadian Nursing program at Mount Royal College, which is also 1 year (academic year = 8 months). The tuition and books/fees cost for that total $4125. Then you'll have to factor in all your application costs, living expenses, fees charged by other entities, transportation, immigration application costs and whatever other money people damand from you.

There are some good FAQ resources here: http://www.mtroyal.ca/ProgramsCourses/FacultiesSchoolsCentres/HealthCommunityStudies/Programs/IENAssessmentCentre/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/index.htm.

So you've gotten through the application, done your SEC, taken whatever courses you need to get your eligibility to write the CRNE... Now you have to apply for the exam 90 days or more before the exam date. And since it's only offered three times a year (February, June and October), you may have missed the application deadline by a few days or a couple of weeks and have to wait for the next one. Results are out somewhere between 5 and 8 weeks after the exam. So it could take as little as a few months (5-6) to a couple of years, depending on all those variables.

Where are you coming from? That will have an effect too.

gemini_star, BSN, RN · Apr 17, 2009

That is very comprehensive enough giving me a whole picture of the process itself. Is the canadian nursing bridging program a compulsory to all? Is this another step to the additional course that you have to take? Because i have not read something like that on application packet. I am assuming that one has to spend about $10,000 for an IEN to go to Canada on top of the study time and effort that one has to put into. It's a big dream for someone who does not have the financial resources. I believe that the Canadian nursing system has very high standards in patient care.

This is just the licensure thing and another hurdle would be the immigration. As I have read, i can apply for temporary permit to finish all of this. I am based at the middle east at the moment.

frustratednurse · Apr 17, 2009

@gemini star - Thanks for replying to my thread and directed me to this one.

No canadian bridging program is not compulsory as far as I know. If you look at the website of Mount royal College it states that CARNA will require you to enroll the subjects that you failed in SEC in order to purse the CRNE exam.

In addition, the canadian Bridging Program has 3 levels;namely:

LEVEL I: Introduction to Nursing in Canada

LEVEL II: Nursing Theory and Canadian Practice Review

LEVEL III: Preparation for Clinical Practice and Competencies

I contacted Mount Royal College 2 weeks ago and I asked how much is the tuition. The reply was they cannot give an amount because CARNA will set the subjects that we need to take.

The $10,000 CAD is the estimate of the CANADIAN government that an International student has to bring inorder to live in CANADA for a year (it includes; food, tranportation, rent etc..) However, air fare, and school tuition are not included on the estimate so it's CAD$10,000+ tuition fee+air fare= Canadian student. It's very expensive. But we need to prove that we have the money to support ourself without working and a burden to the Canadian government.

Regarding the visa, Temporary Resident Visa will do, but if they require you to enroll the subjects and classes will be more than 6 months you need to apply for a student visa instead.

Please see the link for Mount Royal College:

http://www.mtroyal.ca/ProgramsCourses/FacultiesSchoolsCentres/HealthCommunityStudies/Programs/BridgetoCanadianNursing/CurriculumCourses/index.htm

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 17, 2009

geministar, if you've worked in multiple jurisdictions, that will add time to your process because CARNA will insist on verification of registration for every jurisdiction you've been registered with for the last 5 years, as well as verification of registration in the jurisdiction where you were educated. Some people have not bothered to register in their home country because they didn't ever plan to work there, only to find that they can't be registered in Canada without it.

The costs are really impossible to predict because every person's process is different. But you have to realize that if you're required by CARNA to take any nursing courses you'll have to pay the international student tuition rate, which is double the resident tuition.

You're quite correct that Canada has extremely high standards for nurses. Ours is a highly technical environment (computerized SmartPumps, computerized charting, wireless monitoring systems, variety of mechanical ventilation strategies, multiple electronic assist devices and so on) and nurses are expected to function at a very high degree of independence. Where I work, there are nursing assistants, but they do NO patient care so the entire responsibility is on the nurse. Those nurses who trained in places where technology isn't as widely used struggle mightily to get the hang of things here and some just can't manage it. You need a good deal of confidence in your nursing knowledge, skills and time management to function well. Be prepared for a lot of adjustment!

nurseboy143 · Apr 28, 2009

may ask what if i have no working experience yet do i need to pass the working experience form and what is the chance of getting my eligiblity when assessed by carna if i have no documentation of working experience

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 28, 2009

CARNA probably won't have a problem with it but your prospective employers will. If they're going to go the the expense of hiring a foreign nurse they're going to be looking for someone who won't need a lot of hand-holding and mollycoddling, someone who can hit the floor running and work to the same capacity of a locally-trained nurse.

CARNA's registration requirements are virtually identical to those of all regulatory bodies across the country:

Applicants must provide evidence satisfactory to the Registrar of completing one or more of the following, within the previous five (5) membership years (CARNA’s membership year is from Oct. 1 – Sept. 30):

1125 hours of registered nursing practice; or
successful completion of a nursing degree or a nursing program satisfactory to the Registrar; or
successful completion of a nursing refresher program satisfactory to CARNA.

If you're a graduate of a satisfactory nursing progam but have not yet started to work as a nurse, you'd fall under #2 above as far as CARNA is concerned,

nurseboy143 · Apr 28, 2009

ok janfrn thank you very much i appreciated your replies a lot. the only thing that i'am a bit worried right now is if my transcript here in the PH is eligible to take the exam and since youve said that it is ok if i have no work experience i feel ok right now. maybe ill just have to take all my chances to find my employer and to prove to them that what other foreign nurse with exp can do i can also do. thanks again for the replies

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 28, 2009

I didn't exactly say it's "okay" that you have no experience. I said that in terms of being assessed by CARNA it isn't likely to be a problem. After all, CARNA also provides registration to new graduates from nursing schools in Alberta who have no experience. That's how all nurses in Alberta obtain their first licenses. Please read the following threads:

https://allnurses.com/canadian-nurses/internationally-educated-nurses-323075.html

https://allnurses.com/canadian-nurses/faq-canadian-registered-370227.html

https://allnurses.com/canadian-nurses/canadian-licensing-system-382752.html

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/faq-substantially-equivalent-387308.html

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/how-become-rn-321784.html

There are several hundred posts on the topic of nuring immigration to Canada within those threads.

A goal without a plan and a lot of hard work is nothing more than a dream. Having a dream isn't a bad thing, but the reality is that dreams don't come true without an investment in making it happen. Canadian employers cannot take a lot of time and spend huge sums of money on recruiting nurses from other countries who aren't going to be able to step into the shoes of a Canadian nurse and begin working right away. Our economy is in a recession, there are hiring freezes in many regions (including all of Alberta), and in some provinces they're talking about layoffs. If you hope to be attractive to employers here, you will need experience.