I Need To Talk To Someone About Excelsior

traumahawk99 · May 10, 2006

i think if you read comments here from excelsior grads you'll come to realize that people who put in the work to finish the program aren't having any of the problems you're concerned about.

i'd honestly assess myself and ask if you're going to have enough dedication to finish the program. the cpne will probably be the most stressful weekend of your life. however, if you put in the work, it's all entirely doable.

i'm tickled to death to be an excelsior grad :). the only thing i can't do at this time is get a california license. since i couldn't possibly care any less about working in california, that's not a problem for me.

continuing your education, bsn programs will be rn to bsn programs. they're only going to require that you've got an rn license. they aren't going to worry that you went through excelsior. better yet, to answer your concerns about other schools, call them yourself. tell them that you're an rn who went through excelsior, and you're thinking of applying to their program.

if i were to do a bsn, by the way, i'd do it through thomas edison in new jersey. they're quite reasonable, and it's all online. in my opinion, they've got the best overall deal for rn to bsn in the country.

online education is the wave of the future, and it's here to stay. good luck.

barbshortt · May 10, 2006

I got my ADN through Excelsior in 1998. I think it was a difficult way to get an RN, as it required alot of discipline to keep at the books, while working fulltime. I will admit that I do feel that I was shortchanged on clinical time - there are definately gaps in my education. And the CPNE weekend was very stressful - I still have PTSD! But, no institution ever questioned my qualifications. I even worked in the UK with this education, and was able to work through their stringent application process with no problems. I am certified in my field (OCN), so again, no problems/questions due to the excelsior degree.

I am currently in an RN-BSN program at the Universiry of New Mexico, and they had no difficulty in transferring those credits from Excelsior (and prior credits before Excelsior), and since I am familiar with the online concept, it is not extremely difficult.

Best of luck to you-

traumahawk99 · May 10, 2006

i don't see how you'd feel shortchanged by the cpne. in my view, the deal is the deal, take it or leave it. you're not going to learn anything more in traditional clinicals that's going to make a whit of difference in your job, where you'll get infinitely more thorough training. yes, on the job, where nurses are made. not in school!

this sort of program isn't for everyone. if not, then you should go to a traditional school, where you won't be shortchanged. gaps in education? you're telling me that traditional clinicals really make a difference that would follow you all throughout your nursing career? that's hard for me to buy. i'll lay wager that you're a damn fine OCN, and if you decided to switch areas, you'd have the experience to quickly assimilate any new skills required to do that job. what else do you need?

i did tons of clinicals as a paramedic. while it's not the same thing, there is a lot of overlap, and that with some paramedic experience formed the basis for the cpne training that excelsior requires.

you've got to perform like a new nurse on the cpne, period. if you can survive that exam, you can give meds, assess patients, and deal with care plans as well as a new graduate nurse. one thing is for sure... you'll never forget to id a patient before giving a med!

i'm a big believer in excelsior college! :)

Born2BAnurse · May 10, 2006

Thanks Everyone for your imput

pedinurse05 · May 10, 2006

i don't see how you'd feel shortchanged by the cpne. in my view, the deal is the deal, take it or leave it. you're not going to learn anything more in traditional clinicals that's going to make a whit of difference in your job, where you'll get infinitely more thorough training. yes, on the job, where nurses are made. not in school!
this sort of program isn't for everyone. if not, then you should go to a traditional school, where you won't be shortchanged. gaps in education? you're telling me that traditional clinicals really make a difference that would follow you all throughout your nursing career? that's hard for me to buy. i'll lay wager that you're a damn fine OCN, and if you decided to switch areas, you'd have the experience to quickly assimilate any new skills required to do that job. what else do you need?
i did tons of clinicals as a paramedic. while it's not the same thing, there is a lot of overlap, and that with some paramedic experience formed the basis for the cpne training that excelsior requires.
you've got to perform like a new nurse on the cpne, period. if you can survive that exam, you can give meds, assess patients, and deal with care plans as well as a new graduate nurse. one thing is for sure... you'll never forget to id a patient before giving a med!
i'm a big believer in excelsior college! :)

I can't answer for the other poster about her feeling "short changed" with the CPNE...but I feel that any extra supervised clinical is a bonus. Nursing is about patient care. The more patient care the more comfortable one becomes delivering patient care. Clinicals bridge the gap between theory and application. This can be especially difficulty for those with little hands on nursing training. I would not have done this program with little experience. The program worked well for me because my 10 years of LPN experience. The CPNE is a norm referenced criteria based exam...If one practices enough even a non clinical person could pass it. This is where we see problems associated with the program. To some extent I fully agree with with different boards requiring more clinical time prior to licensing EC grads. For those grads that have been LPN's for some time, I don't think this is necessary. For those grads who got into the program using credentials other than paramedic or practical nursing, this can pose a problem. I really think EC needs to revamp their entire clinical portion and their entry requirements.

EC grad spring 05

traumahawk99 · May 11, 2006

I can't answer for the other poster about her feeling "short changed" with the CPNE...but I feel that any extra supervised clinical is a bonus. Nursing is about patient care. The more patient care the more comfortable one becomes delivering patient care. Clinicals bridge the gap between theory and application. This can be especially difficulty for those with little hands on nursing training. I would not have done this program with little experience. The program worked well for me because my 10 years of LPN experience. The CPNE is a norm referenced criteria based exam...If one practices enough even a non clinical person could pass it. This is where we see problems associated with the program. To some extent I fully agree with with different boards requiring more clinical time prior to licensing EC grads. For those grads that have been LPN's for some time, I don't think this is necessary. For those grads who got into the program using credentials other than paramedic or practical nursing, this can pose a problem. I really think EC needs to revamp their entire clinical portion and their entry requirements.
EC grad spring 05

if ec revamped their entire program, then it wouldn't be ec anymore. getting a license from ec isn't like finding it in a crackerjack box. current requirements basically mean that those enrolling are paramedics, lpns, or have completed over half the clinicals at a traditional nursing school. i just don't see the issue.

if it's such a problem, where is the real world evidence of all the problems caused by excelsior grads? excelsior college is by FAR the largest nursing school in the nation, graduating around 3,000 students a year. most other nursing schools graduate a few hundred. this would mean that by far, incompetent ec students should be the greatest number of nurses making errors and killing patients. again, where is the evidence? if this is such a problem, it would be abundantly evident. yet i have never seen the naysayers present any evidence in the light of day... only assertions that they "just know".

you've got to pass all the concepts exams, the cpne, and then the nclex. if you do all that, you're a beginner in nursing. i don't think "nonclinical" people are really enrolling in ec and passing the cpne and the nclex.

i've got to believe that the phd's at the nln (which accredits excelsior college)know a good deal more about what they're doing than those whose opinions are based on their own intuition. no offense to you.

as i said earlier... nurses are made on the job... not in clinicals. there's more than one way to skin a cat, and excelsior offers society a valuable alternative source for supplying entry level nurses.

as far as the other state boards, they're influenced greatly by the nurses who run programs at traditional schools, who are vastly more concerned about control and politics than reality.

and there are many at traditional schools or who serve on state boards who feel that even ec grads who were lpn's aren't qualified to be registered nurses. does this mean that you're an incompetent and dangerous nurse? of course not! it means that someone has judged you unfairly.

pedinurse05 · May 11, 2006

Nothing replaces a clinical IMHO. The CPNE can really vary from examiner to examiner...A nurse may be made on the job BUT begins with practical application of theory in a supervised setting. The school may put out many students but far less than the combined traditional body as a whole. Unfortunately EC has allowed what I consider (and should have not worded as non-clinical but non nursing) unqualified credential students into their program. Until not long ago MA's and basic EMT's could enter the program. The program is under scrutiny by many boards (and especially these last few years). The program in my opinion does lack in clinical for those with little experience (what I consider less than 2 years). I firmly believe if you do this program that you must have experience under your belt!!!! While the issue could debate forever, the fact remains any type of clinical training in any profession enhances your practice....EC just doesn't have this. The CPNE lacks in L&D, ICU, and peds. Many times adults are subs for peds. I am fortunate to have worked in peds several years. My nursing program as an LPN taught me so much more...primarily because of all the structured clinicals. I am grateful for EC but I do have to admit it does lack in the clinical department. I never had this opinion until I saw just how much the students do at my hospital!!!

barbshortt · May 11, 2006

I'm afraid I came across (in my above post) as not appreciating the education I got at excelsior. Sorry if that is the case - I actually think my education was better than most of the RN's I work with. Since the exams are so comprehensive, and not working towards the lowest common denominator, my studying was intense and directed not at talking points provided by the teacher - rather, I had to know and understand everything presented as it could show up on the tests. It was stressful, but valuable in that I feel I had a better understanding of the material, and a more lasting knowledge, than most of the nurses I work with. I am more than happy with the base provided my by Excelsior.

And i agree that most of my current technical expertise has come from on the job mentoring by really good oncology nurses.I could not have learned any of it from a clinical experience in a traditional nursing program.

I cannot explain why I think that a fuller clinical exposure would have been good for me, or how that would be accomplished in a distance learning environment. Part of it is that I just like the clinincal rotations and being exposed to areas of nursing that I normally don't see. I think that exposure would have prepared me for the CPNE mostly by helping me relax about being presented cases in unfamiliar territory. But, again, traumahawk, you are right - I was thrown into 2 scenarios where I had no background at all....and did well, through the systematic processes I had learned through excelsior.

I am hoping you are right, as well, about the ability to switch areas of nursing and having the ability to assimilate new skills...I am making a change to ED nursing soon. Not really too worried about it, but rather looking forward to learning and broadening my knowledge base.

hsieh · May 16, 2006

i tried a traditonal lpn to rn transition prog at a local college. dropped out after the transition part. i think the excelsior exams were fair and the clinical i learned a lot about assessment because it's all organized. when i did my transition prog it seemed so unorganized and so much time was spent bathing, changing linens, and toitleting the patient. i remember spending an hour in class while the class "argued" with the instructor over exam questions. i think excelsior is an excellent school. no nursing school is a walk in the park. i'm just the type of person who doesn't want to waste my time.

Jo Dirt · May 16, 2006

I have had a love/hate relationship with Excelsior. When I was going through the clinicals I was thinking about what a joke they were (in my mind) and how 2.5 days wasn't possibly going to prepare anyone to be an RN. Also, I got a real beotch for one of my CE's and it wasn't until I complained about her that I learned there had been scores of other complaints about this woman similar to mine. This isn't necessarily Excelsior's fault but I'm going to ride this issue until I see some justice done with this woman. The CPNE was stressful enough without added mental abuse, which this woman dished out in excess. In fact, I'm still not quite over the trauma.

Regarding the actual clinical, I am a little more appreciative now. No matter what anyone says about what the CPNE clinical is lacking, when you have passed it you will sure as he%% know what you are doing, and now that I have started working as an RN I appreciate that. I have been complimented on how thorough my charting is by my employer and I attribute that to the drills of critical elements I was forced to do as a part of the preparation for the CPNE.

traumahawk99 · May 16, 2006

I have had a love/hate relationship with Excelsior. When I was going through the clinicals I was thinking about what a joke they were (in my mind) and how 2.5 days wasn't possibly going to prepare anyone to be an RN. Also, I got a real beotch for one of my CE's and it wasn't until I complained about her that I learned there had been scores of other complaints about this woman similar to mine. This isn't necessarily Excelsior's fault but I'm going to ride this issue until I see some justice done with this woman. The CPNE was stressful enough without added mental abuse, which this woman dished out in excess. In fact, I'm still not quite over the trauma.
Regarding the actual clinical, I am a little more appreciative now. No matter what anyone says about what the CPNE clinical is lacking, when you have passed it you will sure as he%% know what you are doing, and now that I have started working as an RN I appreciate that. I have been complimented on how thorough my charting is by my employer and I attribute that to the drills of critical elements I was forced to do as a part of the preparation for the CPNE.

i think the real question is whether or not excelsior prepares someone for a career as an entry level registered nurse. and i'd say that medics, rn's, and rt's have enough education that the 10 months to 2 years that the excelsior program takes will do it successfully. as a practical matter, these people are going to continue working as they're studying, and reinforcing what they've learned via ec on the job. yes, with real live patients. while it may not be a supervised clinical, it's a fantastic learning opportunity. and i've got to agree that you'll be able to perform the core duties as a generalist rn without any troubles if you've passed the cpne. you can give meds, assess patients and chart just as well as a graduate of a traditional rn program, and much better than some. you'll certainly understand care plans and how they relate to real patients.

as far as the ce's go, you can wind up with an ultra authoritarian who is rude and condescending. it does happen, since you're dealing with people. it happened to me. still, they can't arbitrarily fail you. overall, i'd say i was treated fairly. yes, i still think that ce was a ***** :). that's people.

excelsior isn't for everyone. independent thinkers are best suited for this program. those who think they're going to need supervised clinicals in specialty areas such as icu or they'll endanger patients should go to a traditional nursing program.

funny, me with no clinicals in icu (other than saving a few critical patients on ambulance). the ca's (nursing school instructors) strongly advised me to go into critical care based on my cpne performance. if i were to do that, i'd seek out training resources and certification as a critical care nurse before i presented myself as a competent critical care. i have yet to see a traditional nursing school turn out students capable of functioning as critical care nurses or specialty nurses of any sort. thinking otherwise is simply delusional.

the point is that training never stops in this business. and it's the ability and character of the nurse that will ultimately make the difference - not which accredited program they finished.

i think the nln deserves a lot of praise for helping provide society with an alternative source of entry level nurses.