How do your guys calculate GRE score?

rhp123 · Feb 11, 2004

Sorry, on the post, I should say how do CRNA programs calculate your GRE score?

New CCU RN · Feb 11, 2004

Sorry, on the post, I should say how do CRNA programs calculate your GRE score?

The GRE was recently redone...oct 2002 to be exact... there are now two scored parts that are the verbal and math... that is where the 1000 is coming from and then there is a writing section which is graded out of 5 or 6 i think...

so if u hear of people getting a 1000 that is 500 and 500 and if it is the 1500 most likely it is the old way of scoring...

when u send ur score reports to ur crna schools you are applying to they will obviously know the difference.... (scores are typically good for five years)

Roland · Feb 12, 2004

exceptional GRE scores that it would make sense to only apply to schools that required a GRE? My wife's combined verbal and math was 1380 several years ago, but her current GPA is only 3.45 (we ARE going to get it higher If she doesn't KILL me for quizzing her two hours a day first! In fact thanks to suggestions from people at allnurses to use NCLEX books in her nursing classes she scored a 98% this week, ten percent higher than she has ever done before in nursing. I told her for her next Cardio, test that I'm getting my Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine study guide out and quizzing her until she can get at least HALF of the Heart and Vascular System questions correct).

By the way I have read that the new GRE scoring system will TEND to approximate your SAT scores. Personally, I think these tests are a "back door" method for using "intelligence tests" which are no longer considered politically correct. That is to say that many of these standardized tests will tend to roughly correlate with intelligence test scores. What I don't understand is that my wife is a MENSA member and tops me by over twenty points on IQ tests, but I blow her away in most math/science subjects and have a higher GPA (at a roughly equivalent institution). I would say that anything over around 1200 with a 4 or better writing evaluation is very competitive for CRNA schools.

rhp123 · Feb 12, 2004

I also did a search on google. I thought I should have done it before I post this question. But your guys gave me more information than I can get from google. They are really helpful. :-)

dneill01 · Feb 12, 2004

exceptional GRE scores that it would make sense to only apply to schools that required a GRE? My wife's combined verbal and math was 1380 several years ago, but her current GPA is only 3.45 (we ARE going to get it higher If she doesn't KILL me for quizzing her two hours a day first! In fact thanks to suggestions from people at allnurses to use NCLEX books in her nursing classes she scored a 98% this week, ten percent higher than she has ever done before in nursing. I told her for her next Cardio, test that I'm getting my Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine study guide out and quizzing her until she can get at least HALF of the Heart and Vascular System questions correct).
By the way I have read that the new GRE scoring system will TEND to approximate your SAT scores. Personally, I think these tests are a "back door" method for using "intelligence tests" which are no longer considered politically correct. That is to say that many of these standardized tests will tend to roughly correlate with intelligence test scores. What I don't understand is that my wife is a MENSA member and tops me by over twenty points on IQ tests, but I blow her away in most math/science subjects and have a higher GPA (at a roughly equivalent institution). I would say that anything over around 1200 with a 4 or better writing evaluation is very competitive for CRNA schools.

Roland

IQ scores show nothing of the ability to learn nor do GPAs reflect what someone has learned. I have known many people that have the ability to take an exam and retain for a period long enough to pass the exam, yet could no pass it 2 months later (great short term memory rather than comprehension) GREs, MCAT etc. reflect what a person has actually retained from their education. These tests are a much better indicator of a persons ability to truely learn rather than regurgitate information for a brief period of time. These exams give you the chance to shine and give a better depiction of yourself than school grades alone.

Think about this, I graduated for a Nursing program with a 3.12 GPA but a board pass rate of 100% for 6 years straight, and that was the top of my class. All programs are different some have GPAs of 4.0 yet a board pass rate of approx. 50% now how do you evaluate these students side by side?

Standardized tests take out the "Spoon fed" factor that some schools have.\

this evens the playing field. If I had to compete against the 4.0s all the time, I wouldnt stand a chance on GPA alone yet would venture to say that I am every bit maybe more intelligent than most of them. Hope this helps

Roland · Feb 12, 2004

except to say that academics have debated the issue on both sides for the last century (especially the last half century). Some of these studies have shown there to be a high correlation between scores on standart (Benet) types intelligence tests, and examinations such as SAT's (and since the new GRE approximates SAT's, then the GRE by extension) Personally, I think these scores have a very limited place (consider that they have been instrumental in the analysis of issues such as lead, and childhood exposure to this substance) as diagnostic tools. However, I also think that they can be misused, not unlike credit scores. Credit scores are based upon an algorithm developed by a company called Fair Isaacs that purports to predict how likely a person is to default on a loan (they were developed by retroactively analyizing thousands of defaulted loans and ones that were paid on time). What most people don't realize is that they can pay every bill on time and STILL have a credit score lower than someone who filed a bankruptcy say two or three years ago (it's not common, BUT I've seen it many times). Furthermore, they don't realize that this tool originally developed to make credit granting decisions is now also used for issues such as auto, and home insurance (thus there are cases where someone with a perfect driving record, but a low credit score pays a HIGHER rate than someone who has a bad driving record but HIGH credit score).

It is my opinion that like IQ's that this practice can give rise to a disparate impact upon minorities, and others. Consider, that research has shown that high credit scores tend to correlate with higher incomes, much as higher intelligence scores have also been shown to also correlate with income. Let's look at this issue in a little more detail. Suppose we wanted to develop a CRNA success score. We might start by randomly selecting one thousand highly successful SRNA's who went on to become successful CRNA's. We would give them detailed interviews, and have them answer long questionaires. We might then move on to do the same with a thousand SRNA's who didn't make it through school, or who went on to become "bad" CRNA's (this might be difficult to quantifly, perhaps we could look as disiplinary actions or malpractice lawsuits as a starting point). Now after all of this research probably wouldn't be a huge surprise students who had better grades would almost certainly fair better in our analysis, BUT we might also discover more arcane correlations. For instance our study might show that people who drive Toyota's have a three hundred percent higher chance of being successful than those students that happen to drive Ford Escorts. If we found this would it be equitable to give an advantage to those students who drive the Toyota's (owning a Camry, I wouldn't complain!)?

In any case my real concern involves using high GRE scores, but relatively low or average GPA's to maximize my wife's chances of getting into CRNA school. Superficially, if you have a high GRE but lower grades it would SEEM to make sense to apply primarily (or exclusively) to programs that require them. In the same way that if you are extremely athletic, but have limited "field success" in college football, you might maximize your chances of being drafted by attending the annual "combine" where your athletic skills (fast 40 ect) will be highlighted. Conversely, if your were a Heissman finalist, but are relatively slow, you may decide to skip this event.

WntrMute2 · Feb 14, 2004

I think there is a lot less to NA schools in making their decisions than those like Roland want to believe. I have no facts, only the feeling that what they are looking for is the ability to be successful in a number of areas. Can you get decent grades in college, can you complete a fairly complex admissions process including getting decent reccomendations, did you stand out in your nursing career or were you comfortable in a low stress environment? Were you also successful at a tough standardized test, those poor test takers are at a disadvantage but there are lots of tests in school and then there is the big quiz at the end. Do you manage to dress appropriatly for your interview? Can you flourish under the different styles of your CRNAs, surgeons and MDAs? Can you bite your tongue when you desperatly want to speak out but still "fall on your sword" when neccessary? You need to have the right combination of anal compulsiveness and flexibility it will take to get through. I think that when one is turned down by a admission commitee despite looking good on paper the reason is they see a flaw in the above.

Roland · Feb 14, 2004

If their are many applicants for each spot then everyone can be excellent, but someone HAS to lose (Just consider that show The Apprentice, where the people on the show were chosen from a pool of thousands, all are successful business people, but only one will be ultimately chosen). As for the complexity of the process, I don't think that I labor under any illusions as to its complexity. Even the most seemingly simple processes can posess multiple layers of sophistication. Consider, that the best minds in robotics have only in the last couple of years succeeded in creating a realistic, robotic COCK ROACH. How many of you can remember back to your highschool days and recall the absolutely Byzantine complexity involved in the process GIRLS used to decide if they even liked a guy!

I remember once playing a game called Axis and Allies with friends for high stakes (the pot was around $400.00 which was REAL money to me at the time). The game has relatively simple rules and they were ready to kill me because I insisted upon consulting with an old buddy who had been trained at the Army War College before playing. Due to some of the tactics that he suggested (take Britain OUT of the game first was his advice) I ALMOST won using Germany, something that never happens in that game (not even the best minds can overcome bad dice).

In fact the only thing in the universe that I've encountered which are RELIABLY SIMPLE are men and dogs (not those jumpy toy breeds).

Trauma Tom · Feb 14, 2004

Roland,

I have watched your posts with amusement. I can only say that perhaps you need to chill out and stop looking so intensely for what CRNA schools are looking for and just focus on preparing as best as you can. I am sure that each school probably have certain things they look for, however I believe schools probably look at their success with past classes to evaluate future incoming applicants. I have interviewed at four programs so far and have one interview left. I was very concerned about being accepted as I am 49 years old and most programs I have applied to have few students over 45. I did not research and apply only to those schools with a large number of students over 40. Instead I sought to apply to those schools where I felt I would be the happiest. After all, it will take 27 months of my time and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. After choosing the schools I would apply to I set out to make myself as competitive as possible. My GPA was not great at a 3.5 I sent all of my transcripts and resume to the director's of each program and asked for an interview to discuss my pending application. I met with 4 program director's and they all gave me pointers as to what I could do to enhance my chances for acceptance. They all liked my GPA and my experience, however I had not taken the GRE. They advised me to try to do the best I could on the GRE as this would help me get an interview. They all indicated that all bets were off once I was granted an interview. After that their decision was based upon how well I did on the interview. I got 1300 and a 5.0 on the analytical and was invited to interview to all five schools I applied to. So far I have been shot down by one and accepted at another one. I am still waiting to hear from three schools. I too do not feel that schools have a complicated statistical analysis of how to select students. I believe their criteria are based upon the competitiveness of the applicants that apply each year and the total number of applicants versus the number of spots available. I interviewed with a CRNA yesterday who told me that based upon today's criteria he could not even get an interview. Relax, enjoy your time between now and when you apply and concentrate on doing what you can to make your application and your wife's as competitive as you can and then select the programs that you feel you will thrive in. Then make yourself known to the people in each program who make the decision. Do all that and I believe that you will find everything else will eventually fall into place for you.

Roland · Feb 14, 2004

It's not that I think that schools utilize an especially complicated analysis in their selection. Rather, it is that I wish to use as much information as possible to maximize our chances of being accepted. I think that I have ascertained certain truth's with regard to CRNA's schools, however I lack data to prove my opinions. In the absence of such data (which is difficult to come by) I seek the opinions of others who have had first had experience. It is true that I am pathologically obsessive compulsive (my wife and I just went out for Vanlentines dinner and I spent an hour outlining strategies to maximize her GPA). Then again as 007 once said to a bad guy:

"You're quite insane."

Carver: "The line between insanity and genius is drawn only by success, Mr. Bond."

Or as The Brain once said to Pinky when he advised him to "chill out". "You won't be laughing when I take over the world!"

Trauma Tom · Feb 15, 2004

Roland,

From one married guy to another, next time you take your wife out for a valentine's dinner, try romancing her with some other conversation besides strategies to improve her GPA! I am sure she would have a better evening and perhaps you might too! You might even discover something to take your mind off getting into CRNA school!