HELP, New CRNA prac getting screwed by the man.

WntrMute2 · Jun 10, 2006

Well, organize youself a bit and with a united front tell them no. Then negotiate a deal that is fair to you. If all of you refuse to comply then you'll have some real power. I know it sounds a little like a union (I hear the gasps and see the heads shaking now) but don't let them push you around. Most places are desperate for CRNAs so use your bargining strength.

Tranman · Jun 10, 2006

gosh sounds like a pickle. I'm not at all suprised. This seems to happen all to often. Obviously the lesson is to get everything in writing. When you don't, it gives the other party the excuse to change the agreement. And they keep screwing ya till ya scream. The more you roll over and play along the worse it will seem to get. That is rediculous to have the CRNAs take call when the RRNAs and Anesthesia Residents have taken all the call in the past. It sucks that they changed the agreement, but I was thinking 168 on a W-2 doesn't sound all too bad. Especially if you all are new grads. If you all are really pissed about this, then get together and start meeting. How many are willing and able to walk. Stick to your guns and have a new job lined up before you start threatening to leave/negotiating. If enough of you are willing to leave and cases don't get done, then maybe they'll listen. I doubt it though, since there are so many students around. Only takes a few crnas, and mda's and a bunch of students to run the place, so they may do ok without you guys. Look around, if you find a better job, then move. If you don't than don't complain too much when it gets worse. Sorry about your situation.

Tranman · Jun 10, 2006

I have a hard time believing that call is the demand of the hospital. What does hospital admin know about anesthesia. They usually leave scheduling and call issues up to the department heads. I would look there 1st. Sounds like you're getting worked over.

MmacFN · Jun 10, 2006

Im not a CRNA but here goes.

Without a contract to abide by (that was a bit of a mistake but hindsight is 20/20), your at the mercy of the hospital. Your only option now is to group togeather and negotiate as a group. I have found this hard with other RNs. However, it has to be al or nothing and in a negotiation like that you have to have concequences to present which everyone is resolved to stick by.

Thats the hardest stuff.

yoga crna · Jun 10, 2006

Alan,

This is an a problem in the entire workforce. It is one of the reasons why I caution students to give a lot of thought before signing contracts with employers who offer to pay for anesthesia school and then obligate you for a long term commitment in an ever changing health care environment.

But--you don't want philsophy--you want some suggestions and I will give it a try.

I will make a few assumptions (1) you are working at a large university hospital and are a hospital or university employee, (2) The MD anesthesiologist who heads the department has a lot of power over the CRNAs and the schedule.

Now, the questions.

1. Is there a chief nurse anesthetist or supervisor? If so, is this person able or willing to go to bat for the CRNAs?

2. Is there even a remote chance the CRNAs would stick together as a group regarding employment issues? I AM NOT TALKING UNION HERE, just some solidarity.

Possible Course of Action.

1. Even though you don't have a contract, there must be a personnel manual for the hospital. If you don't have one, go to Human Resources and get one--legally, they must provide one. Also, gather up all memos, minutes of meetings or anything in writing regarding personnel issues. Example, a letter offering you employment, welcoming you on board, evaluations--anything.

2. All of the above may (in most jurisdictions) be considered comparable to an employment contract. Read them carefully for any polices that are related to time and schedules. If there is any practice inconsistent with the policies, prepare to argue it.

3. If all of the CRNAs can agree, get together and go to Human Resources and argue your case. Note, I didn't say go to the MD head of anesthesia department, because that person is not really your employer. Most hospitals and universities have strong policies regarding employee rights and don't like to get into messy sitations that may establish a trend or precedent.

4. Look for another job--there are plenty out there. If they say you owe them time--tell them the terms of the original agreement keep changing and that would probably invalidate any contract.

Let us know what happens.

yoga

MmacFN · Jun 10, 2006

Yoga

This is exactly the reason we need people like you and Deepz. Negotiation from the CRNA perspective and what the "rules of engagement" are is well out of the typical RN experience.

Thank you.

alansmith52 · Jun 10, 2006

very helpfull advise,

we had a meeting this AM at the chiefs house we had about 10 show. most agree that it isnt so bad that we are ready to leave yet. its the trend we are worried about.

we did bang out some of the major points that we are going to try and negotiate with the chair and his henchmen.

your assumptions are correct we have a chief but he does not get supported. he is ment to be our sounding board. we work for the university and are assoc. faculty in the school of medicine. it has been made clear that we owe them no time. made clear by them. "do what you have to do but we have to do this".

still holing on

alansmith52

jwk · Jun 12, 2006

very helpfull advise,
we had a meeting this AM at the chiefs house we had about 10 show. most agree that it isnt so bad that we are ready to leave yet. its the trend we are worried about.
we did bang out some of the major points that we are going to try and negotiate with the chair and his henchmen.
your assumptions are correct we have a chief but he does not get supported. he is ment to be our sounding board. we work for the university and are assoc. faculty in the school of medicine. it has been made clear that we owe them no time. made clear by them. "do what you have to do but we have to do this".
still holing on
alansmith52

I agree you have some difficult issues to tackle, as well as legitimate complaints and concerns, but let me play devil's advocate and speak from the management side.

Be professional in your discussions and proposals. It's business. You may not like it, and you may not like their proposals, but it's business, and fortunately, you have options if things don't go your way. However - "getting screwed by the man" and "the chair and his henchmen" is an attitude that will hurt you in negotiations. It's not always easy to be civil, but if you come in with a "kiss my a** " demeanor, I can promise you that you won't get far in turning things to your favor or getting the changes that you desire.

MmacFN · Jun 12, 2006

good point jwk.

Go in with a business attitude and a "How can we make this work for both of us" way of thinking.

burn out · Jun 12, 2006

That is why I quit CRNA school , I felt like I was selling my soul to the devil. It sounds to me like you crawled in the bed with him.. Good luck and maybe pray..God might get you out of this one.

MmacFN · Jun 12, 2006

hey burn out

I dont understand your statement?

How could ACT practice make you quit when you had never worked yet? Also, it isnt like this is the norm. Most people seem quite happy with their jobs.