Okay all, I need some help. I'm in my last year of the ACNP program and received feedback on a paper that I did. I'm very particular about my papers, APA format, and such, and have always made A's on them. I'm okay with not making an A if its fairly evaluated.
My problem is that our associate instructor, who is a doctoral student herself, graded my paper. This is her first semester as being a co-teacher. I was quite upset when she gave me my paper back because it didn't seem fair. The points that she took off didn't seem to match up with the notations within the paper of what I had done wrong. She wanted me to talk with her about it after class, and needless to say, we ended up on the verge of argument over "Level of Headings" and I wasn't going to argue with her... especially in front of my lead instructor. When I'm frustrated, I get teary-eyed, so Im sure she heard it in my voice when I said, "You know... it's fine... I just want to go home. Thanks for going over my paper with me."
So I left and headed home, cooled off, and read back over my paper. Come to find out, she was incorrect on several things she counted off for. I emailed her (not the lead instructor out of respect for the new instructor and not calling her out in front of the lead teacher), I apologized for getting so upset and explained that I am a perfectionist and had had a very rough week (which I had). I also mentioned that after talking with her, I had a better understanding regarding a portion of my grade, but still had concerns. I listed the questionable things that she counted off for and gave reference for each one and why I thought it was correct.
I told her that it was hard not to seek clarification on these things since I had information backing me up and would appreciate her taking them into consideration. She emailed me back and said that "We will have a reply next week sometime." So, she probably forwarded it to the lead instructor, which is fine which I had told her it would be in the first email.
My concern is that she is coming to my clinical site for final evaluation tomorrow and that she may be my clinical instructor for the remainder of the year. Tomorrow, my plan is to act like nothing happened and not bring it up. I almost wish that I hadn't questioned her about any of it, but its a whole letter grade difference... and she WAS wrong... and she IS learning... right?
Okay all, I need some help. I'm in my last year of the ACNP program and received feedback on a paper that I did. I'm very particular about my papers, APA format, and such, and have always made A's on them. I'm okay with not making an A if its fairly evaluated.
My problem is that our associate instructor, who is a doctoral student herself, graded my paper. This is her first semester as being a co-teacher. I was quite upset when she gave me my paper back because it didn't seem fair. The points that she took off didn't seem to match up with the notations within the paper of what I had done wrong. She wanted me to talk with her about it after class, and needless to say, we ended up on the verge of argument over "Level of Headings" and I wasn't going to argue with her... especially in front of my lead instructor. When I'm frustrated, I get teary-eyed, so Im sure she heard it in my voice when I said, "You know... it's fine... I just want to go home. Thanks for going over my paper with me."
So I left and headed home, cooled off, and read back over my paper. Come to find out, she was incorrect on several things she counted off for. I emailed her (not the lead instructor out of respect for the new instructor and not calling her out in front of the lead teacher), I apologized for getting so upset and explained that I am a perfectionist and had had a very rough week (which I had). I also mentioned that after talking with her, I had a better understanding regarding a portion of my grade, but still had concerns. I listed the questionable things that she counted off for and gave reference for each one and why I thought it was correct.
I told her that it was hard not to seek clarification on these things since I had information backing me up and would appreciate her taking them into consideration. She emailed me back and said that "We will have a reply next week sometime." So, she probably forwarded it to the lead instructor, which is fine which I had told her it would be in the first email.
My concern is that she is coming to my clinical site for final evaluation tomorrow and that she may be my clinical instructor for the remainder of the year. Tomorrow, my plan is to act like nothing happened and not bring it up. I almost wish that I hadn't questioned her about any of it, but its a whole letter grade difference... and she WAS wrong... and she IS learning... right?
In my program a few of the instructors were probably instructors because they couldn't handle it in the real world. You could tell it in their answers to clinical questions, which quickly led me to Texas Hold Em while they lectured. Don't sweat this, and be careful about rocking the boat. These particular teachers have chips on their shoulders about sucking in the clinical field and have no other option in their puny mind but to try to control a student that they know is smarter than they are.
NP education is so far off base, I wouldn't worry about anything they say. Why should you write a paper unless they are teaching you to write an article for a journal? And how much time should they spend on that??? The WHOLE time, is what they think. It's truly laughable. You NP educators out there should be ashamed of yourselves. I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were you. If we want to be independent and "take over primary care" as I've heard before, someone needs to wipe the slate clean and start over with a similar format that PAs get, without any of the inpatient stuff since we are intended to be in clinics (speaking of non-ACNP stuff).
Well part of graduate school is learning how to write in a professional format. Something that unfortunately is not taught in undergraduate to any great extent. That being said, APA is a very loose format. Other than really obvious mistakes, I would not dock much if any points unless the paper was poorly written. The other part is that like any educational setting, you are being tested on the ability to follow directions.
David Carpenter, PA-C
Well, fortunately... but also unfortunately in this scenario, I did have a great deal of APA-focus in my BSN program. I suppose that's because it was an RN-BSN program and it was nearly 100% paper-writing. As for following the directions, that wasnt the issue... basically, it boiled down to the instructor being "incorrect" about the "mistakes" she pointed out in my paper and ME calling her on them. I saw this particular instructor today, and surprisingly enough she didn't even mention it or act like I had pissed her off. Hopefully it will remain the same... :)
How do you guys get evaluated during clinicals? In my ACNP program, the grade from the clinical component is dependent on the NP preceptor evaluation - very little comes from the clinical instructor input if at all unless there are projects that we do in clinicals which the instructor grades us on (such as presenting during grand rounds, staff in-service presentations, clinical research critique). I guess I wouldn't worry too much about the "confrontation" you had with her. Just remain as professional as you can be.
You're right pinoyNP... and I realized that after the fact. My instructor doesn't really directly impact my clinical evaluation; it is based on my preceptor. I just had this sinking feeling that she would try to make it harder on me or something immature like that... *haha* Like I said in another message, that wasnt the case today when she came for final evaluation and discussion with my preceptor... I'm still waiting to see what kind of reply I get from her and the lead instructor, but as far as I'm concerned, its over. Whether or not the grade is changed... it's done.
In my program a few of the instructors were probably instructors because they couldn't handle it in the real world. You could tell it in their answers to clinical questions, which quickly led me to Texas Hold Em while they lectured. Don't sweat this, and be careful about rocking the boat. These particular teachers have chips on their shoulders about sucking in the clinical field and have no other option in their puny mind but to try to control a student that they know is smarter than they are.
NP education is so far off base, I wouldn't worry about anything they say. Why should you write a paper unless they are teaching you to write an article for a journal? And how much time should they spend on that??? The WHOLE time, is what they think. It's truly laughable. You NP educators out there should be ashamed of yourselves. I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were you. If we want to be independent and "take over primary care" as I've heard before, someone needs to wipe the slate clean and start over with a similar format that PAs get, without any of the inpatient stuff since we are intended to be in clinics (speaking of non-ACNP stuff).
*lol* Well, I do appreciate your soap box... and I think you're right about a lot of things. And its funny, this particular instructor was just "dismissed" or something from her part-time clinical position. Don't really know a whole lot about that... As for the papers, I agree that it is important to have an idea of how to write a paper and that if you have made it to graduate school, by God, you should know how to write a stinkin' paper. Unfortunately, that is not the case. There are two excellent nurses and NPs to be that I am in class with... and they failed this very paper I have been discussing. They have one chance to redo and if they don't meet a combined average of 80 on the two papers, they are OUT. JUST LIKE THAT. I realize this is still a "weeding out" process throughout the program... but come on. I am not afraid to say that I am an excellent paper-writer and if they butchered my papers... I can't imagine what they did to someone who hates writing papers and is uncomfortable with it, ya know? Crazy!
in my program a few of the instructors were probably instructors because they couldn't handle it in the real world. you could tell it in their answers to clinical questions, which quickly led me to texas hold em while they lectured. don't sweat this, and be careful about rocking the boat. these particular teachers have chips on their shoulders about sucking in the clinical field and have no other option in their puny mind but to try to control a student that they know is smarter than they are.
np education is so far off base, i wouldn't worry about anything they say. why should you write a paper unless they are teaching you to write an article for a journal? and how much time should they spend on that??? the whole time, is what they think. it's truly laughable. you np educators out there should be ashamed of yourselves. i'd be embarrassed as hell if i were you. if we want to be independent and "take over primary care" as i've heard before, someone needs to wipe the slate clean and start over with a similar format that pas get, without any of the inpatient stuff since we are intended to be in clinics (speaking of non-acnp stuff).
i am so sorry for your loss! why did you stay in such a poor program? sounds as if you preferred the pa route, why didn't you go the route you feel is so superior.
my experience has been the exact opposite. the clinical instructors i had 20 + years ago were excellent clinicians as well as teachers. the np faculty i know now are some of the best clinicians in the clinical practice, they are able to integrate what they teach in to what they practice.
i am so sorry for your loss! why did you stay in such a poor program? sounds as if you preferred the pa route, why didn't you go the route you feel is so superior.
my experience has been the exact opposite. the clinical instructors i had 20 + years ago were excellent clinicians as well as teachers. the np faculty i know now are some of the best clinicians in the clinical practice, they are able to integrate what they teach in to what they practice.
np had better lobby power in my state. didn't matter, though, as they can't get together as a unit and accomplish anything anyway.
why didn't i sell my house, try to find another, move my family, postpone graduating, try to transfer credits, and go to another np program with the same backbone problem? oh, i guess i just answered...
But doesn't it bother you - just a little? I would think it might hang in the air and cloud any future interaction you may have with this particular instructor. I may be too confrontative, although approaching the issue with a goal to resolve any misunderstandings may be more comfortable than ignoring what occurred.
NP had better lobby power in my state. Didn't matter, though, as they can't get together as a unit and accomplish anything anyway.
Why didn't I sell my house, try to find another, move my family, postpone graduating, try to transfer credits, and go to another NP program with the same backbone problem? Oh, I guess I just answered...
I am still not understanding, if the NP route was such a poor one why did you pursue the education?
I am still not understanding, if the NP route was such a poor one why did you pursue the education?
I didn't know it was so poor before I did it. I stopped pursuing an MD when an MD talked me out of it. I was young, impressionable, and made a mistake. I went NP for 3 mos, realized it wasn't teaching me what I was hungry for, so I quit and started getting ready to apply for med school. Wifey got prego in the mean time, so I decided I wouldn't make my family pay for my mistake and went back to NP and finished. I'm probably not the best person to talk to about NP school because I wanted to learn medicine, and NP school was in that respect the biggest waste of time and money I've ever spent. You can't tell me it was good when I had to write a paper on enchiladas and spent literally one clock hour one evening on all of radiology listening to a guest speaker talk about a chest xray.
I want to be the captain of the ship answering to nobody. I'm a NP instead, so I have to live with that. It's a daily torment, but I love my family too much to risk their well-being to go back to school/residency for the next 8-10 yrs. I'll just have to wait for those online bridge NP to MD programs come. I may be waiting a LONG time... and yes MDs I know there's no short cut, blah blah blah.
But doesn't it bother you - just a little? I would think it might hang in the air and cloud any future interaction you may have with this particular instructor. I may be too confrontative, although approaching the issue with a goal to resolve any misunderstandings may be more comfortable than ignoring what occurred.
Webster2
Hey Webster... well, I ended up getting a reply yesterday and she went back and made comments on every statement that I noted (the things that I thought she marked inappropriately on my paper, with legitimate resources saying that I was "right" in the first place) arguing why she was either right, that she "needs to read up on this more," or some other BS that was obviously made up... and THEN proceeded to say that she forgot to take off 3other points!!
AND SHE CC'd THIS TO THE MAIN INSTRUCTOR!
How she can sleep at night is beyond me. *LOL* I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! Ya know? Obviously it is a No-Win situation for me unless I took it above her... which I simply do not have the energy for anymore. The semester is over next Friday... I know that I am right and that she is being immature. Also, I can see her true colors now. I am very disappointed because up until now, I thought she was going to make a decent instructor. Come to find out... she's been teaching for 5 years. COULDA FOOLED ME! *lol* Several of us in the class thought this was her first semester... if that tells you anything.
Overall, it really sucks... but I feel like I have to be the better person here. I will not bring it up again unless the lead instructor approaches me about it.:angryfire
cgfnp
219 Posts
In my program a few of the instructors were probably instructors because they couldn't handle it in the real world. You could tell it in their answers to clinical questions, which quickly led me to Texas Hold Em while they lectured. Don't sweat this, and be careful about rocking the boat. These particular teachers have chips on their shoulders about sucking in the clinical field and have no other option in their puny mind but to try to control a student that they know is smarter than they are.
NP education is so far off base, I wouldn't worry about anything they say. Why should you write a paper unless they are teaching you to write an article for a journal? And how much time should they spend on that??? The WHOLE time, is what they think. It's truly laughable. You NP educators out there should be ashamed of yourselves. I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were you. If we want to be independent and "take over primary care" as I've heard before, someone needs to wipe the slate clean and start over with a similar format that PAs get, without any of the inpatient stuff since we are intended to be in clinics (speaking of non-ACNP stuff).