Getting the first job--what's most important?

Fenway1 · Sep 10, 2008

I've just recently found this site and what you are all discussing here is my current dilemma. I have a BS in Computer Science and an MBA. I am 43 and have not worked in 12 years (raising 3 kids.) My dream is to become a nurse. I have already started science prerequisites. Big dilemma--ABSN vs. ADN. For me, I think the ADN would be easier to achieve because the workload wouldn't be so intense. I still have to be around in the afternoons & evenings for kiddies. Is there a downside to doing an Associates vs. Bachelors? I know the Associates would take a little longer. Is anyone aware what the pay differential would be? Anyone have any experience with Bergen Community? Any advise would be much appreciated.

83studentnurse · Sep 10, 2008

The pay difference is MINIMAL -- something like an extra $1000 a year (you usually get an extra $2,000-3,000 a year for taking the board certification exam, which you can do with either degree).

I've heard good things about Bergen Community; last year 93.55% of students passed their boards on the first try -- that's a strong number (one of the biggest criteria should be the NCLEX pass rates).

It is tricky for those of us with degrees in other fields -- we understandably don't want to take a "step back" in getting this degree. However, from all the talking I've done with people in the industry, I realize that ADN students with degrees in other fields are looked at differently than other ADN students. We don't have BSNs, but we have bachelor's degrees and often we have other degrees that would be very useful (ADN nurses with MBAs can DEFINITELY go into management/administration, if that's something you'd like to do).

My personal suggestion would be to do the ADN -- it seems like it would be easier with your schedule and your family. There are benefits to having the BSN (a certain prestige and greater promotablity), but I think those are largely negated by your other degrees; besides, I don't think those benefits are worth the cost to you and your family. That's just my opinion, of course. :)

Oh, one last thing, if you compare the ADN programs' pass rates to the ABSN programs, you find -- perhaps counterintuitively -- that the ADN programs usually graduate better-prepared nurses. For example, Fairleigh Dickinson last year had an 83% pass rate, Rutgers had a 77% pass rate, UMDNJ had an 83% pass rate and Seton Hall had a 71% pass rate (they have to be above 75% or the school can lose it's accredidation. If that happens, graduates won't be able to sit for the NCLEX!)

Good luck!

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · Sep 10, 2008

IMHO, in this day of NJ nursing jobs being VERY hard to come by... I personally would do my BSN all over again. If you have 2 jobs available, and 10 BSNs and 10 ADNs, who is more likely to be hired, do you think?

The BSN prepared nurses. Not because they are any better, but because hospital management likes good numbers, and a shot at Magnet status.

83studentnurse · Sep 11, 2008

Hi Steve,

I definitely understand the benefit oif the BSN -- since I already have a BA, I plan to get my MSN after I'm done with the RN. However, the difficulty of getting a job actually pushed me toward the two-year degree instead of the ABSN, because I'll have a summer off to do an externship and maybe even be able to work a little bit as a aide while in school. I think having that relationship with the hospital is also beenficial in getting a job.

But, ultimately, this is the most important question -- what's best for you and your family? Because, though there are pros and cons of each, they'll both make you an RN and both give you job opportunities (especially if you're a good student -- nad in your case have these other degrees -- I'm confident you'll be employable, no matter which you choose).

At a certain point, you know the pros and cons of each option, but neither one is perfect. You have to decide which is most in line with your needs and your values. Do that one, because it's right for YOU.

Since the ABSN and the ADN curricula are similar (both cover just the nursing material), the actual education you'll have as an ABSN RN or a BS/MBA RN won't be very different. Here are the pros and cons of each option as I perceive them:

ABSN pros:

Quick

Provides the BSN, which may help get hired to some hospitals and positions.

No need to go back for further schooling

ABSN cons:

Very intense, leaving little time for family

Stress (how well do you handle the stress of intense school?)

No opportunity to do summer externship (which provides experience and establishes relationship with hospital)

ADN pros:

Less intense (sill rigorous, though!)

Inexpensive

Offers opportunity to do externship, which can help you get hired to that hospital

Depending on the program, may have better NCLEX pass rates

Depending on the program, may have more clinical time (there is a perception that diploma prepared nurses have excellent clinical skills and that ABSN prepared nurses may lack clinical skills. Neither is necessarily true, but, due to diploma schools' hospital affiliation and focus on clinical and ABSN's very rapid pace, there may be some truth to it. Of course, after working for a while, a few hundred hours of clinical time in school won't make any difference! Just when you're starting out).

ADN cons:

Less prestige

Potential desire/compulsion to go back to school for BSN or MSN (due to my pride, I feel compelled to get my MSN after getting my RN. Thankfully, there are a lot of schools that will accept me as a BA,RN).

Potentially less attractive to employers

Obviously, that's just my perspective, but it may be helpful as you sort out what's right for you!

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · Sep 12, 2008

Are you talking about the original 3-year diploma degree programs which were attached to hospitals? The degree that died decades ago? Or the 2-year Associates Degree in Nursing (ADN)?

IMHO, it is highly dependent on the program how much actual clinical time you get in school.

Many ADN programs require prerequisites which can take as long as a BSN, depending on which classes you've already taken....

All I can tell you is that the NJ market is flooded with very experienced RNs, with ADNs and BSNs thanks to all the closings and layoffs. It's a VERY tough market to get into right now.

If you are willing to relocate somewhere that there is a true nursing shortage, having your ADN may not even be an issue.

83studentnurse · Sep 12, 2008

I'm not actually talking about BSN vs. ADN. I'm talking about ABSN (usually has more prerequisites) vs. ADN/diploma -- the options for people who have BA/BS in other fields. In my case, I found that I'd get significantly more clinical time by going to a diploma program (5 semesters, two years) than an ABSN program, and I thought that was really crucial. I feel that not having the BSN won't be as big a deal in my case -- with a BA -- as it would be if I had no degree, though I do still plan to get my MSN.

But, if I were fresh out of highschool, I'd definitely recommend a 4-year BSN instead of a 2-year ADN + 1 year prereqs. Why not, really? :) But it's a little trickier in the ABSN vs. ADN/diploma situation, espeically after we have families, jobs and other responsibilities later in life.

Fenway1 · Sep 12, 2008

I'm talking about ABSN (usually has more prerequisites) vs. ADN/diploma -- the options for people who have BA/BS in other fields.

I agree. In my case, I was very interested in attending the ABSN program at Dominican College in Blauvelt, NY (just over the Jersey state-line). After they reviewed my college transcripts, they gave me a list of 8 prerequisites I would have to take before entering. Four of the prereqs were sciences and 4 were psychology classes. Because the psych classes had to be taken sequentially, it probably would have taken me 2 years to finish just the prereqs for the program. I can get an ADN faster and for a LOT less money. With 3 kids to worry about as well, it just makes sense to me. If I were a lot younger and had no other responsibilities, I'd definitely go for the BSN. But for my life now, the ADN makes more sense.

gudiarani, BSN, MSN, DNP, RN, NP · Sep 30, 2008

i managed to complete my ba and then my 13 month accelerated bsn just this past july, passed the nclex two weeks ago (yay!) and had a position waiting for me that i accepted months ago. personally, i don't see how it is even an argument to choose a diploma over a full bsn, even if it is accelerated. the fact that you graduated from an absn program alone makes you an amazing candidate to get a job, besides passing the boards.

first of all, you're quite limited in opportunities with an adn. if you go to any hospital and look at their clinical ladder, adn's and lpn's can only go so high, whereas a bsn has the opportunity to go to the top of the ladder now. and there is definitely a difference in salary, though it may be small, it’s still significant.

another thing is that, as mentioned in another post, if it's a bsn (whether accel or not) vs adn, it's the bsn that gets hired, which makes the argument of having more experience so you'll have an easier time getting a job invalid. this brings up another point, absn programs have to be accredited, which includes a certain number of clinical hours as deemed by the nlnac, so you'll definitely get enough hours, without having to spend an extra year and a summer to get clinical experience as a student nurse/assistant that you think you need to get a job. what you really need is clinical experience as an rn! you are not exposed to nearly the amount of responsibility of an rn when working as a cna, etc.

in addition, the hospitals that are willing to hire new grads will have a new grad orientation, which should be more than sufficient to cover most aspects you may not have gotten before. however, i have seen some of the good hospitals limit their new nurse hires to only bsn’s! my orientation for the nicu is 16 weeks! how anyone would think that is not enough time, is beyond me.

also, to dispel any rumors that the pass rates of absn programs are low. i not only disagree, but that is completely incorrect. my school’s pass rate from the year prior was 97%. not only that, but so far from my class of 110, i have not heard of anyone that has failed.

bottom line, an absn will probably save you quite a bit of time, and as all know time=money. so while your adn friends are still in school, a bsn-prepared nurse is out at work, moving up especially since he/she is more sought after now vs an adn or lpn. the bsn nurse will be ahead by a year and then some. though you may have that summer to get more clinical experience, it’ll all add up to what you want more: experience before working or to save time. for me, i don’t think the experience is worth an extra year, especially if i know i’ll get the experience i need with time on the unit i want to be on as a nurse.

ps i apologize if i offended anyone, but i had to defend my degree and hard work! :nurse: oh and the arguments above are for the purpose of those without children and many other responsibilites that would require taking a less stressful route!

jenn_rn_nj · Oct 1, 2008

I have a BS in psychology & education and I chose the diploma route when I went back to nursing school because I wanted the clinical experience. I do not regret electing a diploma program.

The majority of my 43 person graduating class got jobs at the hospital that sponsors our diploma program. A few of us went outside of that hospital - I wanted to work at a university hospital and, although the job postings all indicated "BSN preferred", I was able to find employment in the exact setting I desired. I think that it was a combination of my previous job experiences, my class standing and my interview that secured my position and I don't feel the diploma put me at a disadvantage in any way, though, I was the only non-BSN new hire in my 50 some person new hire class (which was a little intimidating).

My program was not as detailed in pediatrics as other programs might be, but I still had leadership coursework, community health, ethics and legal issues...I don't feel I was shortchanged by electing the diploma / AD route. Also, since I have a bachelor's in an existing field, I can still bridge directly to an MSN program. Unless you attend a Co-op BSN program, like Drexel, I think that it would almost be a requirement to do an externship to gain additional clinical skills.

Just my :twocents: ...this is an age old debate.