student nurse dreading outcome of misjudgement

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

I have to admit, that the OP's friends age and choice of LPN track did color my perception, leading to my assumption he was not wealthy. That said, even I would feel like I could not afford a lawyer on my own wage, which I am pretty sure is much more than this guy has. The rich do have an advantage within the justice system. Anyway...I do think this has spun out of control some and will close here with the statement that I do believe everyone deserves a fair shake. Nothing more nothing less. I do not beleive there is one person here who believe that the guy should not be a nurse because he stole a razor. That would be criminal.

cswain12000 · Oct 10, 2005

see, this is why I have a problem with this type of rationalization. It doesn't matter WHAT he stole. It's all semantics. What matters is, that at the adult age of 22, he stole an item worth a whole cart full of groceries ($100) without engaging the gray matter in his head....or the white matter, for that matter...but I'm sure the myelin doesn't really have much to say now, does it?
Point being this:
I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm just saying he consciously made a concrete decision to do something that is not only morally wrong, but defies all that he was probably taught as a child. It's not like right and wrong were just introduced into his world.
Rationalization of core values and morals is going to be the downfall of society...oh, wait. It already is.
This guy needs a reality check and if not being allowed to become a licensed nurse, then so be it.
Life isn't fair, so don't pretend to make it that way.
Oh yeah, I could mention his social responsibility and self-accountability, but I'm afraid I'd get flamed by those who think he should be let off the hook because it's his first offense. Nip it in the bud and it won't become a problem...let him get away with it and his subconscious will allow him to feel invincible to authority.

Exactly! He is an adult...and he consciously opted to steal something that he couldn't pay for. I would not want him working at the LTC facility that my grandma is in--who's to say he wouldn't have a "misjudgement" and steal something of hers...

RNinJune2007, RN · Oct 10, 2005

Catys
If it were fair to most, I wouldn't have anthing to say. That is my point...it isn't fair to most. This person we are talking about is the typical nurse wannabe with a "record" that who fears being barred from obtaining a nursing license because of it. That's right, the very dangerous, electric razor thief. We are not talking dangerous criminal behavior here. Fortunatley, this is America and our justice system is fair and wise enough to work in ways that protect this garden variety pseudo criminal from treatment that is too harsh. He really needs a good lawyer so he is treated in a just manner. He does need to do that so he does not become a victim of the literal word of the law. I seriously doubt most BON's would bar this particular individual becoming a nurse based on this conviction alone, so long as he remains a law abiding citizen from here on.

Okay so, several months back I posted a couple times about a recent "offense"(in may) that was possibly going to keep me from attending nursing school. I was stupid, and not thinking and put a gift card from an employee (they left by the time i turned back around to give it to them) in my pocket.Very dumb, thoughtless, etc. 1500$ spent on one of the best lawyers in my LARGE city, and 4 or 5 court dates, etc. later, I am in nursing school doing GREAT and working on finishing community service.

When I was being held for bond, my offense was 5k DOLLARS bond and a felony, while several people who were there for beating up girlfriends, DWI, etc. had 500dollars to one thousand dollars bond and a misdemeanor.

Our system is MESSED UP. P.S. I was a juvenille but, due to the offense seriousness, tried as an adult.

Anyways, got the charge reduced, making things better and working my butt off to keep up. Trust me anyone facing something like this will learn their lesson (and if they don't, have serious issues and shouldn't be a nurse anyways).

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

Okay so, several months back I posted a couple times about a recent offense(in may) that was possibly going to keep me from attending school. I was stupid and took a gift card from my work (left behind by another employee) totaling 37 dollars. Very out of character, very dumb, thoughtless, etc. 1500$ spent on one of the best lawyers in my LARGE city, and 4 or 5 court dates, etc. later, I am in nursing school doing GREAT and working on finishing community service.
When I was being held for bond, my 37 dollar offense was 5k DOLLARS bond and a felony, while several people who were there for beating up girlfriends, DWI, etc. had 500dollars to one thousand dollars bond and a misdemeanor.
Our system is MESSED UP. P.S. I was a juvenille but, due to the offense seriousness, tried as an adult.
Anyways, got the charge reduced, making things better and working my butt off to keep up. Trust me anyone facing something like this will learn their lesson (and if they don't, have serious issues and shouldn't be a nurse anyways).

I so agree our system is totally messed up. That is exactly why people have to do just what you did to assure you are not shut out by a system that sometimes doesn't work well. People make mistakes. When they learn from them they become stronger. You did. Good for you. What you went through to clear yourself shows the stuff of which you are really made. I'd be happy to be a patient in your care someday.

Catys_With_Me · Oct 10, 2005

Catys
If it were fair to most, I wouldn't have anthing to say. That is my point...it isn't fair to most. This person we are talking about is the typical nurse wannabe with a "record" that who fears being barred from obtaining a nursing license because of it. That's right, the very dangerous, electric razor thief. We are not talking dangerous criminal behavior here.

I guess people see this one differently. For me the question is not one of danger but of which line will he be stepping across next.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

I guess people see this one differently. For me the question is not one of danger but of which line will he be stepping across next.

You're right. It's more about how we see people than the law itself. I believe people are basically good. I am willing to allow someone a reasonable indiscretion, allow them the benefit of the doubt. No right, no wrong here, just differing philosphy.

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

I've received two PM's from members who have honestly shared their opinions on this board, who were threatened by others who posted differing opinions. Threats are not well tolerated by the administrators of this board, and I've encouraged both to forward those PM's to the moderators. There is no need for bullying here (or anywhere).

Looking at the commentary in this thread, which I still think is an excellent one for the purpose of promoting good nursing standards, I'm fascinated by a rush to judgment of fellow members of allnurses coupled with such extreme protectiveness of an admitted felon. There are accusations of having "crushed" someone's "self esteem"--the thief isn't even a member of this board. Seems odd that thinking, educated people would suggest that my (and others') right to our opinions, with supporting argument, will "crush" someone's self esteem, and it was further submitted that this is the reason people are in jail ("gaol").

How sad that the safety of this kid's future patients takes a back seat to whether or not he can get away with his act with little or no consequences.

What heroic efforts we have in this thread to quash any discussion of the desirability for automatically doing the right thing, and for that to be important for nurses. After all, in our "unjust" society where the thief might not be allowed into nursing, which would certainly hurt his feelings.

There have been a lot of threads about the low opinion people have of nurses and nursing. Well, gee whiz, I wonder why? We are so busy making sure that everybody that wants to be a nurse has the "right" to do so and that we are kind and forgiving of wrongdoers whose remorse comes swiftly when there is the potential for punishment, that we overlook the most important issues: safety of our patients, followed closely by safety for ourselves. We are certainly taught this in school (even now).

Ours used to be considered a "hallowed" profession...... So much for tradition.

Frankly, I'm glad for the BON's. Their job is to keep the profession in their respective states safe, and I'm glad they do that. I'm glad they err on the side of caution, as we all should when it comes to vulnerable persons.

truern · Oct 10, 2005

He probably can't afford it, but without it he won't get the justice he deserves.

Sbic, I'm honestly wondering just what "justice" you think he deserves? Mind you, if he'd simply resisted the temptation to steal, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It wasn't food he stole, nor was it any life-sustaining necessity. It was a stupid electric razor!

I honestly don't know what transgression warrants getting removed from school or being denied a nursing license, but I can assure you I'll never be in the position to find out.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

Sbic, I'm honestly wondering just what "justice" you think he deserves? Mind you, if he'd simply resisted the temptation to steal, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
It wasn't food he stole, nor was it any life-sustaining necessity. It was a stupid electric razor!
I honestly don't know what transgression warrants getting removed from school or being denied a nursing license, but I can assure you I'll never be in the position to find out.

I am only saying that the crimal justice system is largely based upon who can buy their way out of a bad situation. Now, I am not saying that is a good thing, but it is the way the system works and it works when true crimes are at hand, not something like this. As far as what justice her deserves...and I am basing this opinion only upon this charge...I believe a system that would label soemone a felon and bar him from entering any chosen career based on this incident alone (razor theft), is not one that serves the people. I have a very hard time using the word felon and this person in the same sentence. With proper representation, this should be reduced to a misdemeanor charge, he should smarten up and be allowed to go on with his life.

I hope no one would find themselves in the position where this type of indiscretion was a career ender fo them...that's my entire point in arguing it's potential unfairness.

sbic56, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2005

Since it seemed so unreasonable to me that this person was being considered a felon, I did a quick google search, ie, "shoplifting first offense misdemeanor felony" and in every reference I found, first offense shoplifting of this amount, is indeed a misdemeanor. I wish I had done this before page 7 of this thread. *shesh*