Group project rant - page 3
It really annoys me when you have a total of 4 people involved in a group project, two are actually doing the work, one doesn't even bother to show up for class (or shows up over an hour late when he... Read More
Nov 5, '05In the real world there is recourse if I don't do my part - I would be couseled, written up, reported to the board for some things or fired.
Group projects are worthwhile when there are appropriate consequences for not participating. They arent worthwhile when the whole group gets the same grade regardless of whether or not they participated.
While the learning experience of a group project is valuable - some of the best learning occurs for those who don't particpate when they are booted from the group or recieve the grade they deserve based on their lack of participation. Letting them ride coat tail teaches them that they can get away with it.
Don't just teach the participating members a hard lesson - all group members need to learn. Punishing half the group for what the slackers didn't do just teaches those who DID do their part that they need to be lone wolves and carry all the load themselves - just as destructive to teamwork in the long run.
Nov 5, '05[/QUOTE]Punishing half the group for what the slackers didn't do just teaches those who DID do their part that they need to be lone wolves and carry all the load themselves - just as destructive to teamwork in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. Martyrdom shouldn't be part of the job description.
Nov 8, '05My part went smoothly, even after the class laptop (which was being used to display pictures on the projector screen) decide to restart itself (just went black and rebooted). Which was fine, since i'd brought my own as a backup. But it went great, and it was a nice feeling to know that all that hard work finally had an end to it.
The second part went fine as well, you could see how much effort and hardwork went into his part of this project, and i had no doubt he would. I thanked him afterwards for doing such with a thank you card. (I'll call him "Matt")
The other girl in this group brought nothing to class. No paper, no pen, no books, no articles of reference, and nothing for the project. When it was her turn, she didn't get up or say anything, just shrugged her shoulders and nodded her head side-to-side.
The other guy in the group hasn't showing up yet, even though class began at noon (not regular class time, BUT this change has been posted since AUGUST for this day, and for the past month, everyone's received a reminding email once a week. Plus, last week, the professor said "Don't forget, there is class at noon on November 7th" and another email reminder on Monday). Anyway, perhaps this guy had a reason for not being able to make it at this time. Since we have regular class tomorrow, we'll find out.
After this was over, the professor asked every person in this group in private "Ok, your part assigned was ________. What was your contribution to this group project" and i stated what i did for the presentation itself, communication, and information. "Matt" stated his as well.
When the girl was asked what she did, she said "well, i never knew what we were doing." The professor asked "was there any communication between you and the others in your group?" She said "no" which was such a lie. :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire
The professor looked at us and asked "Did you communicate with "Jill" about this project?" I said "I have saved outgoing emails, more than 10 at least, to her address. Just in case the email wouldn't work, I posted messages on the class message board with the same very specific content on a thread. Now i know she had access to this message board, because she's responded to other subjects on it. No replies at all."
"Matt" said "I feel that we've really been very consistent on our ends on communication, yet got nothing in return,literally. You can't make adults do what they don't want to do, and i think it was really unfair that either of us had to constantly email, and then no response from any of them. And i also have email proof that i tried"
Right about now, we were taking turns receiving the evil stare. The professor asked her "Do you have any research, weblinks, anything that has to do with your part of the project?" "No" "You knew this was due today though?" "Yeah" "Ok..."
The professor told us "if you have nothing for or on this project, you have nothing for a grade. You cannot expect to call this a group project if only one, half, or 3/4 of the group contributed. There is no reason why someone should get a same grade based on what others have done if the did nothing, if it's clear that all effort was made to include everyone."
We both receved a 94. She received a zero.
Nov 8, '05Let me make it clear that it was not a matter of setting out to ruin someone's chance at a grade. The ooportunity was there to get it, but, just like everyone else in class, it didn't get handed to them. You had to step up and work, not wait for others to come and get you.
We communitcated to the professor that we had problems in communicating with two of our group member well in advance, and also told this to the people we had this issue with (can't call it communication, communication isn't a one-way street). We didn't lie, we answered the questions, and the professor decided.
And she seemed surprised (the look on her face) that she didn't receive a grade as a result of no work.
I'm glad that we stood up for ourselves, but do not interpret that to mean that we're happy she got the zero.
Nov 8, '05I applaud your professor for being fair.
Those who do the work deserve the great grade, those who do nothing deserve nothing - which is exactly what your team mate got. It doesn't sound like you were out to get her, it sounds like you gave an honest appraisal of the situation.
Nov 8, '05Well that was just it, we didn't say "she's irresponsible, unreliable, stupid" things like that. Everything we said was fact.
Nov 8, '05Then you should have no reason to feel badly because she made a zero.
She had the same opportunity to participate that you did!
Nov 8, '05I do understand your frustrations... but I look at it like this.... and perhaps its my old age setting in ..LOL
If my project were a patient... what would I do? Would I do the work the others were suppossed to do in order to help the patient to give them continuity of care?
Sounds silly and unrealistic.. but in the work place... and as an LPN, I am sure you have run across it several times, there are nurses who are not worth their salt, and there are others who are. Would you let a patient down because HIS/HER nurse sucks and isn't doing anything?
Hope that helps... I understand why you don't want the others to have a free ride... but I would do the work.. and it would be made known.. who was responsible.. and who didn't do Jack "#$%^"
Nov 8, '05Would you let a patient down because HIS/HER nurse sucks and isn't doing anything?
He only wanted us to do what was assigned to each of us (after i emailed and asked him about what to do about this), which is why i wasn't doing someone else's part. Nor was someone else going to get credit for what they didn't do.
If we're going to make a fruit salad out of this, to me, doing her work and mine, and both of us receiving the credit for it would be like me giving personal care, meds, etc. to a pt.and her charting with no mention of me doiing any of it, that she herself did all of that. Wouldn't that be falsification?
Nov 8, '05In our program, we have TONS of group work. We actually have a system in place where you group members can sign off on if a certain person did not do their share of the work and that individual's grade will be docked. Of course, people rarely use it for fear of "hurting someone's feelings."
By the way, I hate group work too!
Nov 8, '05How very nicely your prof handled this! I suspect this is not the only time he has had problems with students who sat back and did nothing in group projects. It's just that it would have been nice to know that he was going to handle it the way he finally did, wouldn't it? Perhaps he handles it the way he did to observe how each student reacts to problems within the group as well. If he had interferred before the final presentation it might have ruined the impact he was trying to make. As I've said before, I think there are a number of lessons to be learned from this project on many different levels. That makes it an excellent learning experience. Unless the young lady who was the third member of your group changes her behavior she is going to be left in the dust. Your prof questioned her well and let her dig her own hole--proved her a liar as well. Wonder what this student is thinking about tonight?
After your class is over, or maybe at your graduation you ought to get this professor aside and talk with him about this. I'll bet you will find out that there were many hidden objectives within it.
Nov 9, '05Quote from Marie_LPNIt really annoys me when you have a total of 4 people involved in a group project, two are actually doing the work, one doesn't even bother to show up for class (or shows up over an hour late when he does) or contact us (i've contacted him several times with no replies, except for "i'm workin' on it" and never elaborates just what "it" is even after asking), the other sits around during class and whines "i don't know what we're ("we're???") doing" yet hasn't even begun to research their their part of it, but has plenty of time to text-message her b/f while we're supposed to be discussing this project (yes, i pointed out how inconsiderate the cell phone thing was). It is not up to the others in her group to hold her hand and to point her in the direction. I'm all for helping someone, but she needs to stop using the desk for a footstool, and use it to write ideas on. Not to mention stop using the school computer for AIM, and use it for project research, which is why the prof. sent us in the comp room to start with. How many professors do you know that will take an hour of class time, to dedicate to internet researching. Most would say "do it at home."
This presentation, along with a 2000 word essay to accompany it is due next Tuesday (8 days from now).
The prof. said that if we had any problems to let him know (just emailed him for the 3rd time over this). And i'm really hoping that mine and the other guy's grade are not affected by those that aren't taking this seriously. I know the other guy got tired of sounding like a broken record, trying to figure out what the other two are doing, etc. And i'm sick and tired of both of us killing ourselves for this project, and other people not giving a crap if they help or not.
Cannot wait till this class is over. I'm all for teamwork, if the whole team participates, but since that's not the case, i'd rather not have group projects.
To tell you the truth, I always slack off with group projects also and let others do the work. I am currently doing well in my nursing classes when I am at it on my own. Some people don't like group projects and they are intelligent people.
I dont think it is right that you ratted them out.Last edit by hopefully on Nov 9, '05