Mandated time over you status! What can I Do? - page 4
I work in CCU in a small community hospital and like everyone else we are short handed. Rumor has it that management is either going to schedule us over our status or mandate 12 hr shifts. I hired in... Read More
Oct 27, '01Kday,
You are right in that it is a condition of employment which we agreed to when we took positions as staff nurses. It is not the price we pay for our calling. I never agreed to be treated like a dog when someone suddenly decided to change the rules. I never agreed to quietly and passively put up with that kind of treatment. I knew that there might be times which I might have to stay over. It seems to be pretty common for conditions of employment changed without asking our permission or even finding out how we feel about it. This includes dumping everyone else's responsibilities on us in order to cut other staff or just because the other health care team members decide it is easier for them.
I took offense to the statement and argument used that this was (the price we pay for our calling) and the shame tactic which went along with it. You have to admit that this form of tactic has been used for years against nurses and women and general. Women have put up with and have been tricked into doing a lot of things with this type of shame tactic. If you really loved me you would....... A good mother would...... A good wife would....... A good nurse would......
So if you are a good nurse who has been called to the profession then you should not complain about under staffing of other departments and having to take on their duties. You should not complain about high nurse to patient ratios that were present hospitals started cutting back to save money. You should not complain that CEOs of many hospitals continued to have increases in pay. You should not complain because someone else holds nurses directly accountable for customer satisfaction even with staff reductions. In short, according to the statement (it is the price we pay for our calling), then we should just keep our mouths shut and be good little girls and boys.
A condition of employment is something entirely different from (the price we pay for our calling). I still contend that the people who have this mentality are the reason nursing is where it is today and the reason why so many nurses have given up on any type of relevant change and have left the profession and why many others will continue to leave.
When you have so many people who feel they have to personally suffer in order to feel good about the job they are doing, then those of us who do not share the same personality defect will find another path in life. Eventually the only nurse who will be left are those who must feel pain and endure suffering to validate their needs. I honestly think nursing is a dying profession and it is other nurses who have this sick and sad (the price we pay for our calling) mentality who are killing it. They are the ones who seem to always take what ever is forced down our throats. They seem to take great pride in trying to make everyone feel ashamed with the argument (it is the price we pay for our calling).
Oct 27, '01CareerRN,
I must admit that I am somewhat dissapointed for your inability to incorperate the use of the word "stupid" in your post. I must say however that I LOVED some of your Key Phrases......such as
"sick and sad mentality"
"must feel pain and endure suffering to validate thier needs"
Brilliant! couldn't have said it better myself......
Oct 27, '01First of all, thanks Kay, for understanding what I am trying to convey.
I must have really touched some sore spots.
Guys and gals, all I mean is that nursing is not like working at a convenience store. I hope that it means more than that to you all, too. It certainly does to me.
I don't think we should have to take all the crap that's dished out by management. I don't think we should just lie down and be doormats. I don't think we should suffer, in silence or otherwise, because of what we chose as our professions.
But.....this vicious turning on one another for voicing opinions is part of the problem. I was under the impression that the board was for open discussion. The personal attacks that I have taken from some of you are disturbing, and quite frankly, hurtful to me. I know it's silly to have my feelings hurt by complete strangers. Let me just say that I don't have a sad and sick mentality, I'm not pathetic. You don't even know me.
I'm sorry if I upset some of you.
Oct 27, '01What I have enjoyed about this board.. is that we do stick together.... I am sorry to have been a part of someone having their feeling hurt...
I feel very strongly that the more We provide the mangers with the means (our labor) in the current fashion.. then THEY are reinforced that what they are doing works and should expect to be able to continue in that vein....
I am not a nun... I am a nurse... I have not spent years in school to be underpaid, overworked, expected to pick up the slack for every other department who has a more powerful voice then the nursing staff (i.e. pharmacy has less deliveries.. so I need to go pick up the drugs... etc..)
The more WE continue to pick up the slack for all the **** that is dished out.. then it continues the "tone" that it is okay... and it is not......
Mandatory overtime can be solved other ways.... It is a management problem... let MANAGERS solve it... or ask the nurses for what would be appropriate... volounteers, agency, etc....
The last thing in the world I want... is for us to further devide... please accept my humble apology for being a part of the name calling... I did not mean to be involved in that portion....
In peace, B.
Oct 27, '01Lisa,
What you don't seem to see, is that you did imply that we should be willing ready and able to throw our lives out the window for this job.........and that's all it is, a job. I love my job, I take pride in what I do, but it is a job. NOT a life. I put alot of heart in my work but when it gets to the point of adversley affecting my life, something is wrong. I don't know if that is what you intended to convey or not, but you did.
My life, and I hope everyone elses lives here revolves around a much bigger picture than our jobs. For us to lay down and take the hellatious bullcrap from our employers as a part of our jobs is barbaric. I believe that you understand and believe that, otherwise you wouldn't have been so offended by others outrage.
The problem with these boards is that the written word can be so easily misunderstood. Like I am sure that Kday didn't mean to call Nurses stupid for complaining about their shifts, surely she realized that that was a dumb thing to say,, in my rebutle, I tried to point that out, rather sarcastically, but in good humor, which often doesnt read well, for you can't see the smile on my face or here me chuckle , therefore allowing you to understand my tone.
I love this place, It is a great source of info and learning. If we didn't get into these heated debates it would be pointless. We learn from this, we learn to see things in a way we didn't before hence giving us more understanding. If we get bashed in the mean time, it's time to figure out why. Where would we be if we all agreed all the time?
This is a great place to be, I don't expect everyone to see things as I do, I don't expect to make everyone happy, I expect to be bashed a time or two for my thoughts, and I expect to learn from it and come out with greater understanding.
I dont think CareerRn meant tthat YOU had a sad sick mentality personally. It was the concept which you implied. Though I would have taken it personally myself as would any of us. What I look foreward to is the outcome of the posts, the end of the debate, perhaps the changing of views, or the mutual understanding.
Oct 27, '01Rdhdnrs,
I was not attacking you personally. I was responding to the statement which you made (the price we have to pay for our calling) and everything it implies. This is the statement you made.
Unfortunately there are other nurses and others who use this statement to justify our treatment. I do find it kind of sad and bewildering that a nurse would resort to using this kind of defense for the treatment of our profession as a whole. I still contend that there is some type of personality defect behind it. That there is a underlying need by nurses who use this statement to have to feel suffering in order to validate their self worth and to prove to others that they are some how fulfilling a higher mission in life. They seem to gain some kind of personal satisfaction in having to feel suffering.
It does take a special person to do our jobs, but that can be said of all types of jobs. It takes a special person to be a police officer, a physician, a truck driver, a garbage collector, and many others. It takes an even more special person to do a good job in all of these roles. This does not mean there is a religious or spiritual implication involved. It is more a sense of personal values and work ethic.
Nursing is not in of its self a religious or spiritual occupation. There are many nurses who are highly religious or spiritual beings which can and so bring that aspect of themselves to this profession. There are probably many caring nurses who are as good who have not set foot in a church in years. We do not minister to the sick. In fact, in time of need we call upon the services of pastoral care.
If you and others that hold your views on how (we pay a price for our calling) came into nursing to feel better about yourself or in someway looking to suffer to validate your personal existence in life, then maybe you actually are part of the problem that the profession is suffering from. Some of us actually came in to help others as best as we could, but do not feel the need to have to suffer to do it. We honestly do not think that we should have to pay any price for our commitment to nursing as our chosen profession. Especially it the price is based on us personally suffering.
Now we do agree to terms of employment. The problem with that is that it seems as a nurse those terms change without notice or agreement at the whim of a non nurse entity. They seem to think that we need to (pay a price for our calling) as well. They seem to have some nurses on their side in this regard.
I did not mean to hurt your feelings about this, but this view (the price we pay for our calling) and all the implications of it has to stop. It has been damaging enough to nurses and females in general for too many generations. Do you honestly think that a young female or male who is in the process of making a decision about a career is likely to choose nursing when there are better professional choices around where they do not have to pay a price for their decision? Do you think they want to come into a profession where they are expected and required to suffer? And how much suffering would they or anyone take without seeing progress made toward ending the personal suffering before they find another path in life where they do not have to (pay a price for their calling)?
As I said before nursing is dying a slow and nasty death and it is people who hold this view of (paying a price for our calling) that is killing it. They stall progress and efforts by others by using this argument and their individual need for validation. The funniest thing of all is how many of these same nurses moan and groan about working conditions and when the opportunity arises to stand up and speak up, they are notoriously silent or even absent. Personally, I think they really do not want to have things change. They really want to have the pity factor to talk about with other non nurses so they can be commended on the profession they have chosen. I think it is their way of validating their self worth and importance.
Again, this is not a personal attack on you. It is in response to the view you have and all that it implies. It this hits home personally, then maybe you need to take a very hard look at yourself and the needs you have. Are you the type of person who needs to suffer in order to feel good about yourself as a human being? Do you need to suffer in order to feel like a good nurse? Do you need this type of validation in order to prove to others that you are doing a good job or Gods work? As a woman, do you have this so imbedded in your being that it is a part of you?
In order for the profession to change we have to individually change many of the basic individual characteristics which have prevailed for centuries. Women are the key to change in this female dominated profession. As a whole, it reflects the personality of women. The little girl who needs to suffer because their mother had to suffer and that is the way of life attitude has to end. The religious aspect of a calling and the implications of having to pay a price has to end too. If not, nursing will continue to die a slow and nasty death.
Oct 27, '01[
I joined the profession to help others who were suffering. I did not join to share in their suffering.
QUOTE]Originally posted by CareerRN
I really hope you like what you have done to the profession as a whole. People who share your attitude are the professions biggest problem. [/QUOTE]
Damn it, yes, yes, yes! If you are female, where have you been all of my life?
If you are male, lets go out and kill something.
Oct 27, '01it sounds like you all need to come and work where i work. we have every other holiday, salaried pay, no mandatory overtime, n(however you can work and extra shift and make almost double of what you would make hourly), no union, good pay >40,000/year. nurses are treated like goddesses and gods. it a nurse's way hospital. i'm thinking maybe because i have never been through the issues that it sounds like you all have or have had, that i don't understand some of the points of views that some of you have.
we are experiencing the same nursing shortage as everyone else. we are losing nurses left and right. we have lots of agency and travelers. i have been there for a little over a year and I am already high on the seniority list. so if this kind of perfect situation is not making nurses happy...what will? this is why i don't think complaining as a whole is doing anything or will do anything. i think that nurses are just an unhappy group in a dog eat dog world. now i'm not looking for a bashing from anyone. this is my opinion...
i was thinking about leaving my current position and finding another job...maybe i'll reconsider...
P.S. i do think that CareerRN and Sundowner should be in the ANA, fighting for changes in this nursing profession. i think they are very eloquent and passionate in their beliefs. anyone else agree??
Oct 27, '01Yes ICU.. I do agree....
So.. How come you might be leaving your current position if they treat you like a goddess? just curious....
been thinking of going into ICU, Becky,
would you recommend it?
Thank you all for the lively thread and thoughts to ponder....
Oct 27, '01oh no...i didn't make myself clear. i'm one of those ppl that gets bored pretty easily...i want to do cardiothoracic ICU, instead of cardiac ICU. CTICU is more techinical and more thought provoking. i'm not quitting b/c of the way i am treated!!! besides...i'd probably just do an interhospital transfer...although, i would like to work closer to where i live!!
definitely go into ICU. i absolutely love it.
Oct 27, '01total agreement!! I've been single for the last fifteen years and had the same thing happen. I want to go to my mom's house to celebrate Christmas and Thanksgiving with all my nieces and nephews. They are the 'kids' for my family.
Oct 27, '01oh yes!! i KNEW there were more single, childless nurses out there with the same "let's go and screw our coworkers children out of spending their holidays with mommy or daddy" (i'm saying this sarcastically...for those of you w/o a sense of humor)mentality. we've got little children, even though they aren't "real", and family to spend holidays with too!!!