Mandated time over you status! What can I Do?

spudflake · Oct 23, 2001

Interesting reading...

I agree - having children doesn't mean you get special privileges. Holidays should be rotated from year to year. One year Christmas, one New Years, one Thanksgiving. Almost EVERYONE has a family that they want to spend holiday time with.

Right to work. I am in a right to work state. Right to work does NOT mean fire if you want. The employer still has to have reason for termination or you have the right to sue.

Mandatory OT. You need to first talk to your manager. Since you will probably not get any satisfaction there...then talk to HR. SHOCK...still no help:( Then up the ladder you go. If there are other nurses who feel like you do...make them go too:) State your case. clearly, politely, non threatening...BUT firmly!!!

They are having a hard enough time finding coverage, it won't help matters to have a dozen or so nurses say bye bye:o

Agency nurses are NOT a solution. They are a temporary thumb in the dyke. If all nurses went agency then who would work the weekends , nights and holidays....someone who wants REALLY big bucks. But would that happen:confused: If the agencies have all these jobs full...where would you work??? Nights, weekends, holidays just to have a job. This is definately not a win-win situation.

Because we are in health care, there are situations that allow the employer to call for mandatory OT. But it is suppose to be time limited. Manadory for x amt of time. When hospitals don't agree to this they usually end up getting a wake up call from a union rep

Unions have decreased in several job areas but are inceasing in nursing:rolleyes: Wonder why???

My staff works some crazy schedules over the holidays. I don't care what they do as long s there's no OT, the shifts are covered and everyone is happy. Christmas day I have 6 different nurses working each doing a part of a shift. I only have two nurses on Christmas - small rural ER, 2 is plenty. They are covering each other depending on who needs to be home in am to see what Santa brought, some 1pm for those that have the big meal at mid day and others are covering 4pm for the ones who eat a later meal. Is pay day a pain in the neck for me. UGH YES:o Everything's on computer and you can only imagine how confused that computer gets with people clocking in and out all day. But the staff is happy:D And isn't that what counts:)

rdhdnrs · Oct 23, 2001

Thanks ICUBecky for understanding what I was trying to say.

To clarify, I most certainly do work at the bedside usually 48 hrs a week in a very busy OB unit at a teaching hospital. No I don't sit at a desk; I very rarely sit anywhere!

I understand that many places are much worse to work for than my unit; I also think that the diatribe by CareerRN was not thoughtful and a (maybe deliberate) misunderstanding of what I was trying to say. I agree that no one should have to work all holidays or mandatory overtime. I agree that we should stand together and demand better working conditions if ours are unfair. All I was trying to convey is that we all know when we get into health care that it's not like working at a factory job or a convenience store where the hours and schedules are set in stone.

Didn't mean to get everyone all stirred up.

Terrie · Oct 23, 2001

Spudflake---- Very interesting:)

We have a unit meeting on Nov 7 , which is during my vacation but I will go because this is where we tell them if they mandated OT or do 12 hr shifts several of us will walk. We have a new supervisor who knows nothing about our unit (CCU). She came from home health care and has no experience in critical care. Her job description say she is 24 hr coverage and she says she will not do it!

Our unit has done very good on covering holes in our schedule and we are only short a p-3 on nights (Three nights every two weeks) and a p-4 on days (Four days every two weeks) which is what our supervisor is supposed to work but we are orienting our supervisor therefore she is not really much help and can't work by herself. She got yelled at for not having 4 hrs covered and the house supervisor had to find coverage. This was apparently more than she could handle and that is the reason behind mandated OT and 12hr shifts. BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT WANT TO WORK!

CareerRN · Oct 23, 2001

quote:

the price we pay for our calling. >

I do not think I misunderstood this statement or the intention behind it in your first post.

You were quite clear in basically saying that nurses should not complain too much and should accept personal sacrifices because of a calling. So when should we say enough is enough?

In your response, we should never complain because everything is the price we pay for a calling. This includes the working conditions, the lack of respect, and the low pay when compared to our responsibilities. I did not take any kind of religious pledge when I join this profession. I want the same respect and treatment provided to any other human being. I am not a hand maiden, a hostess, a housekeeper, or someone servant. I am a registered nurse, but I am forced at times to do all the latter roles and many more. People who share your views and attitudes expect nurses to sacrifice every time we turn around to live up to this calling thing. Oh no break or lunch today well that is O.K. because you are nurses and you were called to the profession. Self sacrifice and suffering are expected of you. You would not be a good nurse without suffering, right?

Again this is the same shame tactic which has been used for years against nurses and women in general. This tactic has been used for years to get women to do things by making them feel ashamed or guilty when they said no. It has been very effective and you seem to know how to use it pretty good yourself.

Sundowner · Oct 24, 2001

Spudflake has the right idea, I hope you all don't think that I feel that just because I have children, that holidays mean nothing to those that don't, I know we all have families.

All I am saying is I appreciate the employer who respects my young children and allows me to spend Christmas morning with them. I have always been more than happy to make up for that small kindness.

I have always said (though I don't any longer because I work agency) I will work any shift of any holiday,,, just don't ask me to work Christmas morning. They held me to it usually too! I didn't mind.:) The younger single girls really enjoy having New Years Day off.....they would get it thanks to me, I hardly ever work daylight but did often on that day for others who wish to celebrate. My kindness to them for theirs to me. They I don't think realize how much it meant to me to have that time with my kids. Like I said earlier, I quit one job to have it.

We as nurses need not bow down to management, no where in the hypocratic oath did it say "I shall forsake all others, before my employer", or "I shall work till I am no longer able to stand up, let alone provide decent care".

I think it was in New York, or was it Pennsylvania, where a nurse was asked to do another eight hours after already completeing 12,,, He said no,,,he couldn't possibly,, they mandated him anyway, and he had a fatal car accident on the way home the following morning. Management was happy,, their shift was covered.

Agency isn't the answer either, I know (and I hate to say it being that I am agency) what happens to facilities that have too many agency nurses working. The facility goes to hell. It is the truth as I have seen it. Agency, thought to be a bridge in many cases ends up being a thorn in the side. Lets face it we have all met more agency nurses that don't give a crap than do. They come in, do minimal amount of work required, and bolt. State comes in and the place is a wreck,, the biggest problem is the lack of permanent staff. Agency nurses don't care if your facility passes state inspection, they only care that their butts are covered. I have seen it too many times. Of course, then management has a cow and cracks down HARD on the regular staff. It's a no win. I have seen this happen in two different facilities this year alone.

The answer is to PAY US and treat us with respect. It is the only answer.

ICUBecky · Oct 24, 2001

hey sundowner!!

truce?:)

Sundowner · Oct 24, 2001

well,,,,......................OKAY! lol

I really think we are all on the same page.......it is always hard t o see the other side of the coin, thats why I enjoy these forums......lotta views, and I can share mine....sometimes it is heated but we all end up thinking and learning and gaining respect for the side of the coin we dont see! Its a good thing.

spudflake · Oct 24, 2001

Sundowner - I was very happy to see your post regarding agency nurses. How very true. I didn't feel I had a right to express that same opinion as 1. I am not agency and 2. I am management. I believe hospitals take a gamble with the high cost of agency nurses. You just never know what kind of nurse you'll end up with. Don't get me wrong..I have worked with some excellent agency people but then again...more often I've worked with the slackers:o

Holidays are always stressful and having the extra burden of working on poorly staffed floors doesn't help the stress level.

If the floor can work as a team there are always solutions. Management may not like the solutions but as long as there's coverage and no OT why should they really care. Be creative and everyone wins:D

Sundowner · Oct 25, 2001

Spudflake!

Never be afraid to voice your opinion! In this particular case it happens to be fact! We all know it, maybe it's about time we let other agencey nurses (they know who they are) know it too!

I have watched agency nurses from both sides of the fence. I have come to the conclusion that there are several types of nurses that work for agency. The first type, the type everyone hopes to see hit the floor, is proud and concientious, and cares for her patients in every aspect, which would mean, she does her job to the fullest and respects the facility she is assigned to work. She is a team player no matter what team she is on, and when she finds a problem she fixes it, she reorders supplies and meds as needed instead of leaving it up to the regular, she asks what needs done outside of her specific role.

type two: Self servant, doesn't care, pops her pills does her treatments (maybe) and is gone to collect her paycheck. She never feeds anyone, changes anyone or offers one ounce more of herself than she feels need be. Patients get their meds, thats all. She will quickly throw a problem at the Charge Nurse and forget about it. If she is the Charge nurse,,,uh-oh, the oncomming shift will have a mess on their hands. This nurse does her job with blinders on.

type three, the scary type, you are never quite sure what this one is upto,,,,you often wonder if she even attended nursing school. Three hour med pass, treatments,,, yeah right,, only if she is in the mood to collect some OT. This is the nurse that couldn't hang on a regular staff, she has had many previous employers and has been not allowed back to a few facilities.

We all know her.

The sad thing is, what should be a great benifit, often ends up a huge mess. There is only so long regular staff can keep picking up the pieces before they have had enough. However, on the other side of the coin, we need to look at what made this big mess. Why are there more agency nurses than not? I watched my facility go down hill so fast over this shortage, agency came in,,, soon nintey percent of the regular staff (including myself) had gone to work for agency. Why? money, and more importantly, respect, the lack of respect from management is so severe.

I enjoy agency nursing for many reasons, yes I love the money, but more importantly, I can go to work and be a nurse and not a slave, I am not treated like a dog, I don't feel the heat from management. I sleep at night! I strive to do my best wherever I go, I respect management wherever I go, but I don't have to bow down, I just get to do my job, the best it can be done, to benifit the patients which also includes caring for their facility, their home.

HEE HEE,, if you really want to hear me rant,,,ask me how I feel about Agency nurses that need oriented, or need to have their hand held all through their shift.

spudflake · Oct 25, 2001

Sundowner: LOL Great discriptions. I do however wish that nurses would differenciate between management and administration. The problems we face today are not due to management but due to administration and that magical bottom line. The smaller hospitals are doing better because there are less layers to the top. How many nurses know their CEO?? Their Director of Operations, CFO, Risk manager etc. I worked in a large hospital and had three meetings with these people just before the union came in. As I already had a new job lined up I was very bold in these meetings. I told it to them staight. At the end of the last meeting I told them that the union would be voted in because dispite these meetings - they did listen but they did not hear what we were saying. Six weeks later came the vote and the union was in and I was gone. Where I work now is a little piece of heaven. I know the administrative team on a first name basis. That's the way they want it - we're all part of the team. They are pretty progressive and proactive. My ED never uses agency - I am overflowing in staff and have a list of nurses who want to work at my ED. The main hospital does use agency because it is located in a tourist area and there aren't enough nurses in the area for the winter ski season. Three of my staff pick up OT going up there. My staff are happier here then at their preious places of emploment. My per diems beg for F/T positions. I have a small staff - 16 nurses. Eight have been here 5 years...the building has only been open 6 years and 3 nurses have been here since that opening. Some work per diem at other area hospitals and complain bitterly about how they are treated, lack of staffing, pay etc. I have noticed that they are doing less and less per diem at other places.

Managers need to be advocates for their staff. Hard work and loyality need to be rewarded.

Sundowner · Oct 26, 2001

Sounds like you have a great place to be Spudflake! I feel like moving west!

I apologize for so carelessly using the word management inplace of administration. I do see where they are two differenty entities, but so often they climb in the same bed. I have been unfortunate enough to see management care about nothing more than pleasing administration all too often.

THe bottom line is an ugly thing when there are peoples lives involved. I also understand managements positions...my way or the highway is what they hear, what a tough spot to be in. I have at times been certain that there are spots in hell with certain administrators names on them.

The facility I worked at last, before becoming agency, held a meeting hosted by the administrator. Basically to tell us we should like or lump our situation which was beyond poor. We were working one nurse and one aide for fifty patients on a regular basis on our shift, daylight was lucky enough to have two cna's nightturn was beyond pitiful, one nurse two aides and 100 beds.

A very brave CNA asked the administrator if she would let her own mother spend 24 hours in this place. HEE HEE. For the first time in the three years I worked there, the woman was speechless, and very po'd. I quit shortly after. Couldn't take anymore.

JennieBSN · Oct 27, 2001