Employment application: would you sign this? - page 2
i was checking out my former employer's web site. they now have an on-line application form.....guess they think they might scare off someone if they actually walked in the door. anyway, down at... Read More
Feb 2, '02What is the Right to Work principle?
The Right to Work principle--the guiding concept of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation--affirms the right of every American to work for a living without being compelled to belong to a union.
Employment-at-Will principal-- this means the employer may terminate any employee at any time, for any reason, or for no reason. As a general rule, therefore, the employee has no right to challenge the termination or request a hearing.
Feb 3, '02Navada too is a right to work state. I have seen statements very close to the one you posted. Not all are on the application it self. Often this is a separate document that you either sign or you don't work there.
Since Nevada is a small town. (i. e. there are not a lot of job options here, being largely rural and very sparcely populated and very underserved by health care) And every employer has this same statement (more or less) you don't have a lot of options.
It has been my observations that even with this statement most employers will dilligently go through the progressive disapline thing before they will fire.
To give an example of how scared they are to just fire without cause I'll tell my story. I was a wistleblower. So my employer desided that I and my husband who worked the same place had to go. They systematically set up a program of harrasment. They lied to our faces about what they observed us doing in our work. Now I know exactly what I did and so did the observer. The message was clear. They created infractions where there were none. We would not quit. Finally after an appropriate amount of time passed after the whistleblowing I was fired. (they waited 2 weeks to fire my husband. They admitted that they thought he would quit)We applied for unemployment. The employer challanged it. I declined to go to the hearing. I received a copy of the transcript from the hearing. The employer had admitted that they planned to fire me on a certain date (surprise it was the time of the whistle blowing) but they delayed inorder to find cause. Basically they were told that you couldn't do that. If you are going to fire for cause you must have cause when you make the decisionn and they were told they could not create cause. I got my unemployment. I had another one fire me with phoney cause. They also fought the unemployment claim and I won. I guess the bottom line is they are still reluctant to fire without cause because you can claim and get unemployment that way. Each time unemployment is paid the employers rates for unemployment insurance is effected.
This last one was a CNA job and AFTER they lost the unemployment hearing they reported me to the state board hoping that they could apeal once more with the unemployment folks. The state board said they had no evidence of any wrong doing on my part.
Where I work now they always do the progressive disipline thing before firing.Last edit by Agnus on Feb 3, '02
Feb 3, '02Agnus - I don't know where you work in Nevada...but Nevada does uphold the whistle blowing laws. There are many resources in Nevada for protection. I know someone who received quite a healthy chunk of money whistle blowing medicare fraud.
Nevada is a right to work state but you can not be fired without cause.
I'm glad things are better at your new place of employment.
Feb 4, '02question on the employment form. In addition, there was a part about sending for my credit history/credit report and of course a background check for any arrests/convictions, and a check at my school ( grades/school loans), and also driving records from the state driving licensing dept. I asked them? "what does my credit history have to do with my getting a job here?" They replied that it reveals "My Character." I asked, what happens to this information once you have it accumulated in a file? I was sitting in the Human Resources directors ' office at the time. I asked, "does this information go to the ICU directors' office also for his information?" "Oh no," she replied, "It never leaves the file in THIS office." I looked around the office at the 1/2 dozen minimum wage clerical workers there and realized within a week or two, all of these people would know more about me that I did. (It also includes your doctor and medical history search). I really wanted the job and so I signed it. I got the job. I regret signing it as I do not believe the file is as secure as she said. I know the ICU director has access to it. And the clerical people all read it, because over the next two weeks, before orientation, I took out a paper or two to add to the file folder and they simply got the file out of the drawer and put the paper in it, and a couple of times , my file was in a stack on their desks. It was mandatory to get the job..And as the HR director said, ""everybody signs it."" They work on making you feel like you are a scumbag with something to hide if you do not sign the form.
Feb 4, '02But, yes I would sign it...
For several reasons...
1) I am very certain of my past background and performance. As I am sure is the case with most of the posters on this board, I have nothing to hide.
2) The in-depth questions that the application seeks permission to ask of previous professional contacts, would most likely never be asked. If they were, most administrations would refuse to answer for fear of liability.
3) And finally, as others have pointed out, this facility is not the only game in town. In today's time of severe nursing shortage, if you have a valid license, and your breath will still fog a mirror held in front of your face, these places will trip over themselves to hire you. How many nurses have you seen lose their job in the last 2 years, who didn't find another job in less than a week? Often times in less time, and better conditions than the one they just left. That is assuming that the nurse in question wanted to work...
I understand that some people have a severe "privacy" hang up, but that's not something that I suffer from...
So for me... YES, I'll sign...
Feb 4, '02Thanks for the info. Spudflake.
This was not anykind of nursing job or medical issue.
I consulted with an attorney as these events were developing. There was no whistle blower law that could protect me in this situation. There are many kinds of whistleblowing.
I knew I would loose my job. I considered it a given. It was a small sacrifice.
I left there and when to nursing school. Not a bad outcome.
Feb 4, '02There are obvious draw-backs to living in an unchecked, open-season, capitalist society. Folks wouldn't have it any other way because they love their "freedom." I've looked at this from both sides, and it can be scary. Booo!
In the coming month, I will be breaking my apple and getting a position at a local hospital now that I have my CNA license. I cringe at the idea that I may have to work with such ideas over my head. Mario changed his path in life to become a nurse out of core talent (gift) to care for people, and because i love all people. How could I be terminated? I'm not in it for the money, but I know there are folks who are.
I haven't figured it all out yet. If I really wanted the position, Iy'd have to sign it and be aware that a T-1000 lurks (T-1000 is from The Terminator)
I understand your *fears* and telling you that you are not alone. Just be natural; What else can you do/be?
Feb 4, '02Thats exactly how it is here in New Mexico.
for the first six months of your employment anyway.
They have the right to fire you at will, and you have the right to walk, no two weeks.
sucks don't it?
Feb 4, '02Yep, here in hell, opps ther i go again, i mean NY state which I believe is a right to work state, that is a standard contract unless your in a union. It's really not that big of a deal, you still have rights. I've signed many a forms like that for past jobs i have had.
Feb 16, '02Here in West Virginia, all the applications I have signed have had statements to that effect on them, so if I hadn't signed, I would probably not have gotten any work. I am also a whistleblower who was falsely accused of wrongdoing, terminated, and reported to the state board of nursing. It has been 6 months, and no decision has been made on the report, but I was uncontested for unemployment checks. My license is supposed to be unencumbered, but when I applied for another job, I was not able to get it, because the state board reported the investigation.
So I guess it doesn't matter how short staffed nursing facilities are, they are still picky if they want to be.
Feb 16, '02I have been in that situation here in Minnesota. I was recently fired from a job with no explanation. The first couple of weeks I spent all my time racking my brain trying to figure out what I did wrong and questioning my nursing ability. After that I just got back on track and now have a job that pays more than the one I got fired from. It can be a big blow to your confidence. I had no idea that when I was called into the supervisors office that she was going to hand me a dismissal letter. I was in a state of shock for a while. I would have preferred to have a reason, even if it was a stupid one. It turned out to be a blessing in disquise. I have a better paying job with less stress but sometimes I think back and try to come up with some logical reason for my dismissal.