Cheating on nursing exams

[MiaNJ]

What would you do if you found out people were cheating on nursing exams? I don't mean just copying during the tests, but I've seen people share questions from the previous semester, since some professors use the exact same tests. They don't return the tests to the students, but they don't realize that when the tests are reviewed next class, some people write down the answers. Even if the professor tells everyone not to write anything, he or she cannot make sure everyone is not writing, esp. on laptops or PDAs, and it's a large class. Also, there is also the element of 'remembering' the questions right after the test. I myself and some friends can remember many questions afterward since we look in our notes for the answers, to see how we may have scored. But we do this for our own purposes and not to recreate the test. So what's to stop certain people from writing down whatever they remember then writing more during the test review. So the following semester they share with their friends.

I am doing well in all my classes since I study hard, but I just think it's not fair that certain students may simply memorize questions and answers and get high scores. It's not even about the scores, but what kind of nurses will they be, if they don't even grasp the material as a whole and are may just memorize questions.

I am not the only one who has seen this happen, but the professors don't realize that even though they don't return the test form to us, that students can either memorize or write down the questions/answers during review.

I know it's not nice to tell on people but do you think it's fair?

[MiaNJ]

Well, I personally think liars and cheaters should be kicked out of school and nursing. It is an insult to me, my effort and intelligence, and nursing when others cheat. Those who say don't worry about what others do, don't you realize how stupid many people see nurses as being? And how stupid a person has to be to have to cheat to get through school? It's disgusting. They will probably manage the NCLEX somehow and become another lousy nurse dragging down our profession.As for memorizing ?s in order to share with future students, that sounds dumb but isn't cheating. It's fine to remember questions, and it makes sense to remember them for your own use, because teachers do reuse them on finals. I think it reflects badly on the intelligence of many teachers that they cannot write new exam questions from time to time! I did see a classmate deliberately stash a paper under his scantron before a test last semester. While everyone was putting their backpacks at the front of the room (obviously cheating is an issue in my school...), I simply lifted up his scantron and said quietly but firmly "get rid of that now". He got rid of it, and after a week or 2 of avoiding each other we were friendly.

I agree with you, that cheating students who eventually manage to pass the NCLEX will someday make the nursing profession seem less worthy or trusted.

But as far as remembering questions, I am not referring to remembering for your own use. I do that also, remember exam questions. But it's cheating to share the questions AND answers with future students, Especially if they will be given the EXACT same test, thus they will not need to study at all, but just memorize these questions and answers. If it weren't considered cheating, the the profs. wouldn't bother to count the test exams afterwards to make sure no one steals one and distributes them to future students.

They seem to fail to realize that students can remember alot of questions and share them anyway. It's sadder to me that if they do realize this, they just don't care. It's just not fair and it makes getting the degree just easier for future students, which could eventually make for less knowledgable nurses since they didn't have to study more in depth.

[Nurse-o-Matic]

If Nursing Instructors would change the tests yearly, this would help cut down greatly on the cheating. I know it's alot of work to write an exam, but how about using the testbanks from the new text additions we had to buy? I once checked out an 11-year old nursing textbook from the school library when I lost my new addition. Lo and behold, the majority of the exam questions were right out of this old text. I could read the chapter summaries and ace the exams. I showed my prof, who said it's simply too much effort to write new exams. Yeah, but why require the latest texts and then test with the ancient material?!?

[MiaNJ]

Two thoughts....

After 10 years on the job, I've seen many physicians, technologists, and nurses/nursing assistants who "really don't enjoy caring for patients". These providers have been on the job both many more years than I and several years less. It's a fact of life; ready yourself for this reality. Again, the bottom line .... is that 'uncaring' provider endangering the safety of the client? Secondly, it's at the discretion of the prof/instructor on whether to pass/fail a student. I, too, had concerns like yours as a student more than 10 years ago. Years of experience have opened my eyes to the reality of the bottom line...'is the safety of the client the primary concern'?

Thanks for your insight. You have good points, but I do believe that there are instances where an 'uncaring' attitude might endanger the safety of a patient. I have seen this myself where nurses didn't answer the bell of a pt. who they think is annoying or not really in pain but just want to press the bell. They don't really know when there is apiont where the patient really may need them. I know some patients can be annoying but that shouldn't take away our responsiblity in responding to the patient.

But even if just an 'uncaring attitude' doesn't always endanger the safety of a patient, I think it can affect the patients overall well being and healing. I've read studies on how just a caring attitude or giving a patient a smile or asking them how they are today or making small talk for a few min (since I know nurses are busy) often makes the patient feel better. IT's about the 'human touch'. I think that's a core value of nursing- caring, and it's not just about protecting a patient's safety, but about the 'quality' of their care while they are in the hospital. Some nurses may feel they don't have time for that, but even if they are busy, it only takes a second to tell someone hello, how are you this morning, with a smile or asking them if they are comfortable, not just going in and giving meds silently and not even smiling. I've seen this happen, and I think it's sad that some nurses maybe have become calloused. It may be more understandable if they've been in the job for many years, but to see nursing students have this uncaring attitude even before they become nurses is truly sad and makes me think they don't really want to be a nurse.

[MiaNJ]

I find your reasoning unvalid in pointing out the students who never attend class are cheating..When I was in school, I had classmates who did not attend classes frequently but just read the book...They often got the highest marks..Why? I think because they were extremely intelligent people..So you are pointing the finger at your classmates who might not be cheating..To accuse someone of cheating if a big thing, especially if you do not have proof and espeically if you are assuming!

I'm not pointing the finger at them, and I said that I'm not completely sure they are cheating. But it's just highly suspicious to me, as well as other fellow classmates who have noticed this, that some of these students who score very high on tests and are often not in class or leave early, often are the ones who make mistakes in clinicals and just don't seem to care enough about the patients. I think there should be a balance, of both doing good in tests and clinicals. This doesn't mean everyone needs to be an A student, but they should be able to pass the tests and also do well in clinicals. In the end it's the clinical instructors' to judge if the students will pass clinicals, but like I said, they often don't see some of the behaviour or carelessness of these students. You may think we are just jealous of them, and maybe pick on their mistakes, But that's not true at all. We all make mistakes but we put a great effort in clinicals, and it's clear to us that some students don't. Also, its not only because we know they got high grades, because I also get high grades (w/o cheating) and have other classmates who get high grades and seem to know how to execute our skills/knowledge better at clinicals. We are not perfect either, but there have been times when the instructor has asked them a routine question (some that we studied in class) and these students were clueless. So obviously if they got such a high grade in the test it 'may' not have been because they studied the subject in more depth, but simply memorized whatever question they knew were on the test.

[Bala Shark]

I'm not pointing the finger at them, and I said that I'm not completely sure they are cheating. But it's just highly suspicious to me, as well as other fellow classmates who have noticed this, that some of these students who score very high on tests and are often not in class or leave early, often are the ones who make mistakes in clinicals and just don't seem to care enough about the patients. I think there should be a balance, of both doing good in tests and clinicals. This doesn't mean everyone needs to be an A student, but they should be able to pass the tests and also do well in clinicals. In the end it's the clinical instructors' to judge if the students will pass clinicals, but like I said, they often don't see some of the behaviour or carelessness of these students. You may think we are just jealous of them, and maybe pick on their mistakes, But that's not true at all. We all make mistakes but we put a great effort in clinicals, and it's clear to us that some students don't. Also, its not only because we know they got high grades, because I also get high grades (w/o cheating) and have other classmates who get high grades and seem to know how to execute our skills/knowledge better at clinicals. We are not perfect either, but there have been times when the instructor has asked them a routine question (some that we studied in class) and these students were clueless. So obviously if they got such a high grade in the test it 'may' not have been because they studied the subject in more depth, but simply memorized whatever question they knew were on the test.

You know how people do well in class without attending class? They just ask for the notes from their classmates; that is one way..Another way, is that they just read the book. Some students can read the book and absorb a lot of material; some are extremely intelligent at that..Plus clinical and classroom theory are two different things..The students might have book smarts but can not do clinicals well..Some students can do the clinical well but fail the classroom portion..You cannot assume since so and so is not doing well in clinical it means that they are cheating..That is ridiculous! I seen some students who do very well in the classroom tests and fail clinical..

[MiaNJ]

You know how people do well in class without attending class? They just ask for the notes from their classmates; that is one way..Another way, is that they just read the book. Some students can read the book and absorb a lot of material; some are extremely intelligent at that..Plus clinical and classroom theory are two different things..The students might have book smarts but can not do clinicals well..Some students can do the clinical well but fail the classroom portion..You cannot assume since so and so is not doing well in clinical it means that they are cheating..That is ridiculous! I seen some students who do very well in the classroom tests and fail clinical..They are two different things!

That may be true, that some people have book smarts. But there's more to this situation that you are not aware of, esp. since these same students did not do 'extremely' well the first semester and in other classes where the professor does not use the same exam, they don't score extremely high. It's also interesting that these other classes are not the same level of difficulty as the classes they do very well in. If someone is an extremely intelligent student it should carry over to other tests in other classes. How do we know what they score, because people talk and gossip leaks and they also were seen seeking help from tutors last semester for less difficult classes.

So it's not just assuming, but there's more. Besides, there are people that have 'seen' these people with the 'cheat' sheets, and that's all i'm leaving it at. There are not just assumptions at work here. We know for a fact they are not extremely intelligent students who read the book at home. There are indeed those extremely intelligent students, but they ace every class, since the beginning of the program, not just now.

[MiaNJ]

You know how people do well in class without attending class? They just ask for the notes from their classmates; that is one way..Another way, is that they just read the book. Some students can read the book and absorb a lot of material; some are extremely intelligent at that..Plus clinical and classroom theory are two different things..The students might have book smarts but can not do clinicals well..Some students can do the clinical well but fail the classroom portion..You cannot assume since so and so is not doing well in clinical it means that they are cheating..That is ridiculous! I seen some students who do very well in the classroom tests and fail clinical..

Another thing, it's true classroom theory and 'practical' application are different things. But I wasn't just referring to their skills. There have been several instances were they were 'asked' in front of the group, fairly common 'theory' questions that were in the book and discussed in class, but they didn't know the answer. If they were that intelligent to get very high scores on tests, and not attend class regularly, and read the book and 'absorb' alot of material, then why would they not be able to answer questions which other students who get lower scores on test, can answer?

There was also a times when couple of these same students were 'arguing' with some others about how the circulation works thru the kidneys (general facts they should know if they are getting high test grades and supposedly reading the book) when discussing a patient's condition, and what the difference between metabolic alkalosis and respiratory alkalosis, and they didn't realize they were wrong. It wasn't even a very difficult case, and if they had read the entire chapter or paid attention enough in class, they would've known this. What's funny is, we had just taken a test on that subject. But of course, the test only includes a few questions on it, and if a person only memorizes specific test questions/answers, they don't have a more in depth grasp of the material, so they wouldn't be able to answer other questions that were not on the test ..if they didn't read the book or pay attention in class.

[MiaNJ]

"It's scary that it's also happening in other schools. But how do we know for sure if these people can't find a way to cheat on the NCLEX? I had read some posts a while back about people sharing questions they remembered from NCLEX. Of course not everyone will get the same questions, but it's possible to have groups of people join together and share their questions, and eventually form a large collection of exact questions. At least some of those may be encountered on the NCLEX. There was an incident like recently that in the Phillipines, where a group of students were found to have cheated on the licensing nursing exam. It was a big deal on the news, and some people want the nursing school where these students attended to close down." As mentioned in this message, we had a very big national issue regarding the most recent Nursing Licensure Exam in here. It has really grown in such a huge story, that it has been occupying prime spaces on the national broad-sheets and prime-time TV news and even talk shows almost everyday. The saddest part of it all is that, it has practically put the lives of hopeful individuals in limbo, not knowing what will become of them or to the fruition of their life-long dreams and aspirations of someday becoming a duly licensed nurse, as the whole Licensure Exam altogether is being contemplated to be disregarded and a new exam be administered. Yes, thanks to the callousness and blatant inpropriety of a few "bull-hearted" individuals (students) (in connivance with other equally dishonest and "enterprising" school, review center officials and (yes) the national nursing association officials-all boils down to business and bragging rigths of producing a big number of RNs from their own institutions, which will yield more money eventually). Just a clear example why cheating or being dishonest is a bad, bad thing to do. It's like a sweet fresh banana or apple or even freshly baked pecan pie, nice and appealing at first but eventually will stink like a filthy garbage after a long while out in the open. Of course even innocent individuals like who really toiled, worked and "burned their eye-brows" to learn and pass the Exams would have to suffer. Their efforts came to naught and their sweet dreams and ambitions into a pffft. As of late, even us, RNs who took the Local Boards way ahead could be "tinted" and looked upon, disdained if you will by the whole world, and tagged as nurses coming from a country of cheats and of callous morality. That's farthest from from the truth. God forbid. Because there are more or most who did it the right way, and to generalize this uneventful, sorry "adventurism" of a handful is way uncalled for. There's no way to do it but the proper way.

I read about what's happening in the Phillipines, and I'm so sorry for what you and other fellow nurses from your country are going through. I completely understand your feelings, and it's the same feelings I have now, if students are allowed to cheat this way in my school and many others, eventually the public will start to look at nurses as cheaters, not intelligent, and possibly not trustworthy. It will kind of diminish respect for the profession.

I don't understand why people who say, oh just worry about yourself, don't see the ethical consequences that cheating can create for all nurses everywhere. People can start to form stereotypes about nurses and wonder it they all got thru school cheating.

I know this topic is hot, and may not be a good idea to get into it, but all I know is what I read, and haven't see the news broadcast from the Phillipines. I know they said that 'inside' officials may be implicated, but wasn't the cheating done in the form of getting questions ahead of time?

I think this is definitely cheating and am amazed that some people posting here (maybe some nurses) fail to see how getting questions ahead of time is no problem and not really cheating. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be such a scandal and problem in the Phillipines right?

If everyone got the Exact questions and answers to tests ahead of time, there would be no need for studying and anyone can get a nursing degree. It's easier to memorize some questions/answers than study several books, and know more material in depth.

I hope your situation gets resolved soon. I am truly sad that his happened. I decided to become a nurse not just because I am interested in health and caring for people, but also because I heard it was a highly respected and trusted profession. I never heard that nursing school was 'easy' to pass. I always thought it was challenging and only those students who put alot of effort in their studies would make it.

[DaFreak71]

That may be true, that some people have book smarts. But there's more to this situation that you are not aware of, esp. since these same students did not do 'extremely' well the first semester and in other classes where the professor does not use the same exam, they don't score extremely high. It's also interesting that these other classes are not the same level of difficulty as the classes they do very well in. If someone is an extremely intelligent student it should carry over to other tests in other classes. How do we know what they score, because people talk and gossip leaks and they also were seen seeking help from tutors last semester for less difficult classes.

So it's not just assuming, but there's more. Besides, there are people that have 'seen' these people with the 'cheat' sheets, and that's all i'm leaving it at. There are not just assumptions at work here. We know for a fact they are not extremely intelligent students who read the book at home. There are indeed those extremely intelligent students, but they ace every class, since the beginning of the program, not just now.

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS ALREADY. Your posse of amateur detectives sounds completely obsessed with busting some classmates for cheating, despite not having PROOF, just a feeling. You are using faulty logic too. Just because a student does not do well in a previous class, seeks the help of a tutor, seems like an idiot to you and isn't caring enough for your tastes does NOT mean they are cheating. But do whatever your gonna do and hopefully then you can let it go.

[sunnyjohn]

No offense,

But it's time to p* or get off the pot. If there is proof the students are cheating, schedule a meeting with the nursing professor and your school obmudsperson's and share your group's investigative information.

If concsience bothers you, ACT.

It's alright to vent for a while, but if you want to stick around to just convince others their thinking is wrong and STILL have no plans to protect your own grade curve and turn is cheater, well......

So you know, I don't support cheating and I respect you for your stand. I just want you to get this behind you so you can stop letting this inadvertantly distract you from your studies. You may say "It does not, I ma still doing well" but anything that does not HELP you in nursing school HINDERS you...

[MiaNJ]

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS ALREADY. Your posse of amateur detectives sounds completely obsessed with busting some classmates for cheating, despite not having PROOF, just a feeling. You are using faulty logic too. Just because a student does not do well in a previous class, seeks the help of a tutor, seems like an idiot to you and isn't caring enough for your tastes does NOT mean they are cheating. But do whatever your gonna do and hopefully then you can let it go.

Excuse me, but my aim has not been to seek and bust these students. I was only giving examples of how cheating on tests does affect how students learn, since one poster said that testing doesn't reflect 100% of learning. I agree that tests don't always do that, but my point was that if someone consistently cheats on tests, they are less inclined to study and will eventually not know much, but only the specific facts they memorized. It's like someone memorizing questions/answers from the show Jeopardy and build a database of random knowledge, but not really understand the subject with more depth, like people who do study it more. It's not faulty logic regarding the students I was referring to, because if someone repeatedly scores over 95+ on tests, but ONLY on those where the prof. is giving the exact same test from last semester, and do average or below average on other exams which are even easier material it's more than obvious to many (including others in my class) that these students may be cheating. If a person is extremely intelligent they are usually straight A students in all classes or at least high Bs. There are a few students who really are this intelligent and we all know who they are since they were on the honor roll since the first semester and they are also tutors.

I think cheating affects everyone and even though we (not just me) have seen people do this, we don't have them on camera or we don't have the evidence, so it's still our word against theirs. So there is nothing I can do, even if i wanted to. Besides, I don't seek to bust them, I just simply think it's wrong. I don't understand why some people think it's ok to cheat and as long as one's minds their business, the cheating will never affect others..not just in my school but it's happening elswhere and some with more serious consequences, as some posters have noted.

[firstyearstudent]

Why not have a dialogue about this in class... Ask the instructor about what is or is not considered acceptable in terms of sharing knowledge about exam questions.

We asked our instructor and she actually did NOT have an issue with students sharing the memory of specific exam questions and answers with other students -- even those who were not in our semester. In fact, she arranged for tutors who would regularly share recollections of topics or even specific questions that had been on the exam.

However, the instructor was very concerned about the sharing of large portions of exam questions that had been copied or memorized verbatim, written down systematically and shared among students.