US Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) wrote this editorial about his co-sponsorship of HR 5924, the Emergency Nursing Supply Relief Act. Do you support the bill?
8/11/2008
A prescription for our nursing shortage
By Jim Sensenbrenner
Nurses have always been the friendly faces providing comfort and rehabilitation while we and our loved ones recover in the hospital or healthcare facility. However, over the past decade, the numbers of nurses in the US have been dwindling. According to the American Hospital Association, there are presently over 116,000 vacancies for registered nurses. By 2014, that number is estimated to be 1.2 million. This shortage not only creates a crunch on hospitals and other facilities trying to administer care, but has also contributed to nearly 24% of hospital deaths and injuries.
Fine, so you are not part of the majority of nurses. Patriotic Americans who advocate for the working American nurse are hardly xenophobes but I understand the straw man argument as desperation. Also the bill is dead and thanks for your input.
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
Our patients must not forced to be cared for by Visa holders ill-familiar with the culture or language who carry questionable credentials and taking a honorable job which should be available to our own
The answer is not to place patients at risk and alienate them from their caregivers.
The answer is not to bring in foreign nurses which threaten patient care, morale and our health care system.
Fine, so you are not part of the majority of nurses. Patriotic Americans who advocate for the working American nurse are hardly xenophobes but I understand the straw man argument as desperation. Also the bill is dead and thanks for your input.
Good thing you are not a xenophobe. I am sure you have peer reviewed studies and facts that are solid and evidence based to back up your opinions. So when confronted with this you bring up patriotism. Seems like I have seen that tactic somewhere before. I am a nurse, paramedic, former police officer, and veteran. I have spent almost my whole career in public safety/service, and I am all about the working nurse. If your beliefs are part of the "vast majority" of nursing then we are in trouble.
3 in one post. Let me count again, no (update...no 4!). Well chill out Mr " I Am", many of the nurses here who i have personally met have dedicated their lives to public service and do not need to blow their own horns.
As previously stated, the bill is dead and thanks for your opinion.
I have worked with, trained with, struggled with, many foreign trained nurses and found them to be excellent, and I would have NO problems whatsoever with them taking care of me or my family.
I have also worked with many, many foreign trained nurses and U.S trained staff, and have found great differences in their skill levels and attitudes -this is only my opinion:
...th..st section of Country A: nurses are less skilled. They are also much more timid in their nursing, and this is a determent when aggression is needed. I have found them to be poor patient advocates due to this lack of aggression.
...th..st section of Country B: nurses have a lackadaisical approach toward nursing. If it gets done or doesn't ... makes no difference.
...th..st portion of Country C: nurses have a greater propensity towards... for lack of a better word, irritation. I have followed many from this section of Country C who have not advocated for their pt's pain control. A nurse friend from Country C explained that complaining of pain is considered "whining" in her area of the country, and she has actually had to consciously change her attitude toward pain control.
...th..st portion of Country D: I have followed more than a few from this area, and regretted even taking report. These nurses prefer sitting to working.
...th..st area of Country E: less team motivated. They are more self assured- disregarding other staff or even the patient. Two heads are not better than one, in their opinion.
We have to acknowledge that there are important differences in nursing from different parts of different countries, including the U.S.
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
I have also worked with many, many foreign trained nurses and U.S trained staff, and have found great differences in their skill levels and attitudes -this is only my opinion:
...th..st section of Country A: nurses are less skilled. They are also much more timid in their nursing, and this is a determent when aggression is needed. I have found them to be poor patient advocates due to this lack of aggression.
What does "...th..st" mean? And do you actually have specific countries in mind when you say Country A, B, C, etc?
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
i have also worked with many, many foreign trained nurses and u.s trained staff, and have found great differences in their skill levels and attitudes -this is only my opinion:
...th..st section of country a: nurses are less skilled. they are also much more timid in their nursing, and this is a determent when aggression is needed. i have found them to be poor patient advocates due to this lack of aggression.
...th..st section of country b: nurses have a lackadaisical approach toward nursing. if it gets done or doesn't ... makes no difference.
...th..st portion of country c: nurses have a greater propensity towards... for lack of a better word, irritation. i have followed many from this section of country c who have not advocated for their pt's pain control. a nurse friend from country c explained that complaining of pain is considered "whining" in her area of the country, and she has actually had to consciously change her attitude toward pain control.
...th..st portion of country d: i have followed more than a few from this area, and regretted even taking report. these nurses prefer sitting to working.
...th..st area of country e: less team motivated. they are more self assured- disregarding other staff or even the patient. two heads are not better than one, in their opinion.
we have to acknowledge that there are important differences in nursing from different parts of different countries, including the u.s.
if i understand what you are saying, and you are going to make such broad, sweeping statements about something, then at least have the courage to tell us the countries/areas you are speaking of. if you are not because you are worried that it might be bad form, then maybe you should consider that.
i will acknowledge that by the virtue of people being people and having different motivations and personalities, all are unique in ways that may be pleasant or unpleasant. i will acknowledge that nursing is different in various parts of the world/country based on policy, geography, needs, etc. that is a good thing. that is the influence of culture.
but if you mean to imply that i can look at a map and go, "nurses from _______ (insert area/part of whichever country) are inherently _______ (insert derogatory comment) then that is just plain foolish and ignorant.
This was my opinion. Are you seriously telling me that I voiced my opinion wrongly? That I should have done it....differently?
Perhaps YOU should consider THAT.
You just told an online poster at a nursing forum that she gave her opinion wrongly...that in itself is very telling.
It doesn't take courage to be untactful online. This is a good nursing website, and it much more enjoyable with posters being considerate, which I was doing.
It would be extremely bad form to list the areas of countries, as this is my opinion, and it isn't meant as an attack.
Yes, I can look on a map and say.. "nurses from this area are less aggressive than nurses from this other ares." Anyone can.
Aren't New Yorkers known for their aggression? Can you not compare these nurses with less aggressive southerners?
(Go Yankees!!)
I believe 'inherently' is not the word I would use. Tradition, culture, history, necessity...these all combine in producing certain qualities in groups of people.
And, as we all list our qualities differently in order of importance, it is easier to see less desirable qualities in others while being completely oblivious to their more desirable qualities.
And, of course, we all believe that our way is the best way, don't we?
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
come on. cowardly, plain foolish, and ignorant?
this was my opinion. are you seriously telling me that i voiced my opinion wrongly? that i should have done it....differently?
perhaps you should consider that.
you just told an online poster at a nursing forum that she gave her opinion wrongly...that in itself is very telling.
it doesn't take courage to be untactful online. this is a good nursing website, and it much more enjoyable with posters being considerate, which i was doing.
it would be extremely bad form to list the areas of countries, as this is my opinion, and it isn't meant as an attack.
yes, i can look on a map and say.. "nurses from this area are less aggressive than nurses from this other ares." anyone can.
aren't new yorkers known for their aggression? can you not compare these nurses with less aggressive southerners?
(go yankees!!)
i believe 'inherently' is not the word i would use. tradition, culture, history, necessity...these all combine in producing certain qualities in groups of people.
and, as we all list our qualities differently in order of importance, it is easier to see less desirable qualities in others while being completely oblivious to their more desirable qualities.
and, of course, we all believe that our way is the best way, don't we?
i am sorry that i offended you as you were calling nurses from "certain" areas less skilled, timid, lazy, irritating, and disregarding of others. you have your right to your opinion, and i have my right to be skeptical that you can discern all of that based on what? latitude and longitude? and by not identifying the countries, that somehow absolves you of saying some pretty horrible things about nurses who are from different places. that's weak. further, you believe that these nurses are less skilled, timid, lazy, irritating, and disregarding of others because of tradition, culture, history, and necessity?
i have worked in chicago, denver, and atlanta and can't honestly say i have seen that "less aggressive" treatment in the south you spoke of. come to atlanta and witness the "less aggressive" treatment of a trauma or cardiac arrest patient at grady memorial hospital. they work about as unaggressively as stroger (formerly cook county chicago) or denver general. you guys must be doing some crazy aggressive nursing where you live.
so tell me again about the part where you say all of those things about nurses who are different from you, and it is not supposed to be considered an attack because you didn't say the actual names of where they are from. i am not saying my way of nursing is the best way. in fact that is my whole point, which apparently you missed.
The less aggressive nurses I originally spoke of were not from the south, or even from this country. I just used that trait as an example.
Wow, you assumed that my end sentence was about you?
No- I meant it- we all think our way is the right way.
That is why I can have the opinions that I have- because I believe that the traits in my culture are the most desirable. We all think our opinions are right. That is why you post like you do- you believe yourself to be right, and others wrong.
And, trust me, I am not offended by your skepticism.
Thank you for your concern regarding my feelings. It is nice to know that there are sensitive men in the world.
Many women, in various places, are taught to be non-aggressive, compliant, non questioning of authority. This is undeniable, and you CAN use longitude and latitude to point directly to areas and countries that encourage this trait.
I have seen this trait in nurses. Reluctance to call Physicians, reluctance to question orders or instruction, less aggressive patient advocacy.
This does not mean they are poor nurses, but patient advocacy is emphasized strongly in the U.S., and so this could be seen as an less desirable trait in a nurse.
I see it as a less desirable trait. If a patient is in need, I expect that nurse to advocate until that need is addressed.
As far as skill- please refer to post #28 by gemninja
"My mom is a foreign nurse who has 20 plus years of experience now in the US and is one of the most knowledgable and competent nurses. But even my mother has said she worked so hard once she got here to understand the US nursing system because the country she is from the RN's there do not get the training they get here. I rather not say where to not cause any fights."
Some foreign nurses do not have the skill level as nurses in the U.S. due to their training. We cannot sugar coat it. Nursing education is different, and this fact is acknowledged. Those skill levels raise with additional training. So, yes, "less skilled".
For the greater offenses- lazy, irritating, non empathetic-
Some will tell you, others will ignore, others defend.
The less aggressive nurses I originally spoke of were not from the south, or even from this country. I just used that trait as an example.
Wow, you assumed that my end sentence was about you?
No- I meant it- we all think our way is the right way.
That is why I can have the opinions that I have- because I believe that the traits in my culture are the most desirable. We all think our opinions are right. That is why you post like you do- you believe yourself to be right, and others wrong.
And, trust me, I am not offended by your skepticism.
Thank you for your concern regarding my feelings. It is nice to know that there are sensitive men in the world.
Many women, in various places, are taught to be non-aggressive, compliant, non questioning of authority. This is undeniable, and you CAN use longitude and latitude to point directly to areas and countries that encourage this trait.
I have seen this trait in nurses. Reluctance to call Physicians, reluctance to question orders or instruction, less aggressive patient advocacy.
This does not mean they are poor nurses, but patient advocacy is emphasized strongly in the U.S., and so this could be seen as an less desirable trait in a nurse.
I see it as a less desirable trait. If a patient is in need, I expect that nurse to advocate until that need is addressed.
As far as skill- please refer to post #28 by gemninja
"My mom is a foreign nurse who has 20 plus years of experience now in the US and is one of the most knowledgable and competent nurses. But even my mother has said she worked so hard once she got here to understand the US nursing system because the country she is from the RN's there do not get the training they get here. I rather not say where to not cause any fights."
Some foreign nurses do not have the skill level as nurses in the U.S. due to their training. We cannot sugar coat it. Nursing education is different, and this fact is acknowledged. Those skill levels raise with additional training. So, yes, "less skilled".
For the greater offenses- lazy, irritating, non empathetic-
Some will tell you, others will ignore, others defend.
I'm not going to point toward any direction-
BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!
I think the guy you are talking to is a brash and rude person who despises the US. He is in an ASN to FNP program and knows everything. He thinks patriotisn is racism and I thought he was done with his tyrade until you made a comment. He didn't like my observations so went about on a straw man argument. I cannot imagine any nurse trying to work alongside a person like that on a shift. God bless Atlanta nurses, even if they have this guy thinking US born and bred nurses are the absolute worst. One post on here the egocentric noob used "I am" 4 times in one paragraph. The guy is a piece of work.
HoosierMale
36 Posts
Fine, so you are not part of the majority of nurses. Patriotic Americans who advocate for the working American nurse are hardly xenophobes but I understand the straw man argument as desperation. Also the bill is dead and thanks for your input.