Dozens of nurses at Northern California hospital balk at wearing locators

rebelwaclause, ASN, RN · Sep 14, 2002

Eden Hospital is a foo-foo relatively small hospital on the other side of Oakland. It is no where NEAR San Jose. It is well known for a woman suing the facility, charging that analgesics where withheld from her dying father, by an uneducated MD. The case settled for millions, and thus began "pain " as a systems assessment vital sign.

With that little bit of history...You bet Eden should be a little more active in patient care. If it means wearing little paging devices to keep a nurse better informed, managed, or whatever - Let it be. The facility is small enough that ratio's aren't ridiculous.

Anyway....I wish I had a little reminder on my hip sometimes. I would NOT be offended.

Just my opinion.

NMAguiar · Sep 14, 2002

rebelwaclause, ASN, RN · Sep 14, 2002

Thanks NMAguiar

Got your email, I'll keep a lookout. And thanks for the vote! Love your quote, mind if I use it? :)

Youda · Sep 15, 2002

From the article, "Nurses also charge that supervisors can use the devices -- which resemble a miniature computer mouse -- to listen in on conversations."

How does listening in on a nurse tinkle in the BR help patient care? Or, how does eavesdropping into conversations help patient care?

I can see some advantages as NMAgular pointed out. But, I think there are surely other ways to improve patient care or achieve the same benefits. My basic mistrust of management also plays in here in that even though the INTENT is to improve patient care, the RESULTS will undoubtedly be misuse of the system by management.

Glad2behere · Sep 15, 2002

NMAguiar,

We differ on this as a trust issue. Granted, all seems fine on paper. "Look here oh Holy Administrator, how hard you are working us...how little time there is. We need additional support help, and here are the facts to back it up. You can be trusted address this need for us?"

I think you are inferring that if a need is demonstrated and documented it will be satisfied. I disagree, the devices are worn by the nurses to deflect or lower hospital liability so that in court they can exhibit the finely tuned health care machine and eliminate as many dents on their armor as they can, and at the same time allow some finger pointing somewhere else.

Simple business concept...deflect and divert, under the auspices of accountability.

This system is not too dissimilar from convicts on parole wearing a tracking device. They are intended to prevent future criminal activity of the parolee, not always successful.

I do like your saying though: Stop. Study. Analyze. Respond.

I do prefer this though: "Common sense is not all that Common"

rebelwaclause, ASN, RN · Sep 15, 2002

Originally posted by Glad2behere
NMAguiar,
the devices are worn by the nurses to deflect or lower hospital liability so that in court they can exhibit the finely tuned health care machine and eliminate as many dents on their armor as they can, and at the same time allow some finger pointing somewhere else.

Glad...Now you know the devise couldn't be used as a liable witness! Come on now! Lets just say you don't like it because you don't like it?

And honestly...Some of the ridiculous, whack, jacked-up nursing I have witnessed some nurses practice? I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR EITHER! Plain and simple. I'd save my million dollar facility if up against a nurse that practices BAD nursing.

This system is not too dissimilar from convicts on parole wearing a tracking device. They are intended to prevent future criminal activity of the parolee, not always successful.

Over-crowded jails can't be compaired to this, Glad. Here's the facts:

GPS Tracking Device

Now, I wouldn't put this device in a county hospital or a like higher census facility. But, again...Eden Hospital can use some help.

Sleepyeyes · Sep 15, 2002

Uh-uh....no way Jose....nope....not me.... no thanks.

Those nurses are not paranoid; that administration is.

Glad2behere · Sep 15, 2002

OK Rebel,

I do not dispute that Eden hospital could use help, and I confess that I am not too familiar with the problems there. I also outright agree that I like nothing that puts us under a thumb, so to speak.

So I rationalize that anything that does isn't good. There may be some short term gains as NMA suggested, but I sincerely believe that we are giving up a lot here for very little practical gain. The thrust of this device is to increase efficiency as I interpret it, and the conclusion I am drawn to is that the nursing service for Eden was very derelict...because the assumption had to be made that such a drastic measure was needed to rectify it.

I agree with you that bad nurses ain't cool, and they are bad for the hospital, and they are especially bad for the patient. I am not sure how to solve this, but this isn't it.

I submit a little history here from a business approach. Cost and revenue decide whether a business continues. It is in the interest for the business to lower costs and increase efficiency whereever it can, however it can. There has been an ongoing attempt for so many years to create specific areas of nursing defined by certain legal paremeters. RN, LPN, LVN and so on. All ploys to reduce cost without creating additional liability. Nothing against different nurses, but it is all a result of legal and administrative issues. This device will accomplish the same. Wait and see, as we all wear it, and the information comes in over a period of years, it will be known exactly what efficiency expectations are...the net result, a unit run borderline and on the edge all the time, and the benchmark criteria used will be some super-hospital out there, a model of efficiency...staffed by foreign nurses because of higher production ratios....then watch to see the haphazard care result because of understaffing....but in court they have all the numbers, and numbers don't lie right?

These devices are not intended to properly staff a unit, their intent is to discover exactly how much can be gotten away with and leave nurses as the scapegoat. Your average old 45 yo nurse just isn't going to be able to cut it.

rebelwaclause, ASN, RN · Sep 16, 2002

I hear ya Glad...And I'm not making light that administration probably has a diabolical plan for the monitors. I guess as I think of this, if I was given one it would probably end up in the toilet! But nevertheless....Sigh...."More will be revealed"

Take care :cool:

Sleepyeyes · Sep 16, 2002

...and just FYI, our hospital uses cell phones. I use mine; it does come in handy. (It's only annoying when I'm in a room doing an IV or an assessment and I have to stop, take off gloves, interrupt the pt's privacy to hear "rm 105 needs something"--in that case, I sometimes can't pick up.)

But they're not tracking devices, they're communication devices.

Big difference.

Respiratory, Lab, and supervisors and transport people have 'em too.

Youda · Sep 16, 2002

Originally posted by Sleepyeyes
...and just FYI, our hospital uses cell phones (snip)
But they're not tracking devices, they're communication devices.
Big difference.

Sleepyeyes, you have definitely condensed the entire problem into one sentence: the difference between a tracking device and a communication device. A communication device DOES have all the benefits that NMAguiar mentioned, but does NOT have the negative aspects of a tracking device. I'm certain that there are COMMUNICATION devices that could cost just as much as the tracking devices. So, why did the hospital choose a TRACKING system over a communication system? Oh well, I'm just probably being paranoid.

shavsha · Sep 16, 2002

When I was hired on at my facility I was initially appalled by the idea of the locators. But I must admit that I have found them helpful. Our acute care unit has four hallways. If I need my charge nurse for anything I just punch a dial and I know the where I can find her for help. That saves me a lot of time asking around "Have you seen ___________". They also have a sensor that automatically turns off the call bell when I enter the room. We too have the ability to audibly page someone in another room but out of courtesy we hardly ever do it. (I may have been paged maybe once in the last year). I don't know if our management is "tracking"...it wouldn't surprise me. But it has never been brought up in any way. And to my great relief there are no sensors in the bathrooms!