Direct-entry MSN programs

jhoonk · Aug 12, 2005

wildly different credit hour requirements for the same MSN degree. ... advanced practice clinicals.
Thanks, Jess.
I did a bit more research:
http://www.nursezone.com/job/MedicalNewsAlerts.asp?articleID=13695
It seems like American Association of Colleges of Nursing really
pushed nursing programs to adopt this new program and
some appears to have responded well, and some not.
CNL is a new role AACN would like to create to meet
the demand of current health care system.
(meaning, more and more higher degrees in
other specialties, e.g., DOT, DPT, (occup. and physic. therapy)
DePaul has an optional CNL practicum 'after'
graduation. DePaul focuses whaaayyy more
on pathophysiology than others. (go figure)
UVa has devoted more on CNL courses in
the second year. UMd seems to have copied its
second BS program more or less, not much CNL stuff.
So these new Entry MSN programs are really different
from the usual A-BSN plus another specialty MSN, like Hopkins.
It's not the same as the research-focused curriculum
either, such as Hopkins. BC's curriculum
seems to be the simplest of all, RN first, then whatever.
It might be that some school-related hospitals are not ready
to create these CNL positions yet (pressure from
the old-timers, resistance to change, etc), which could
explain the difficulty of preparing the new CNL students.
Anyway, I think it would be a challenging role to get into.
It's becoming clearer to me now, difference between schools
and stuff. I really like UVa. They send students to
'migrating camps!' ha ha ha
Amitai.

Gennaver, MSN · Aug 12, 2005

Amatai,

Sorry to not respond in the forums, (glad to be here).

DePaul's program turns out to have a 90% NCLEX pass rate. During the program we are allowed to get a single C and we must keep our GPA at a B, (which is 86% minimum.)

Another strategy in order to ensure graduate having NCLEX success is that outside of our scores we must also pass competancies each quarter which are solely to ensure success on the NCLEX. Passing all of these, (the grades, and the competancies) are required in order to graduate.

Genn

p.s. glad to catch up on the forum!

p.p.s. my summer school was successful, earned an A in stats, (completing the biology associates-thought it was done but, had the outstanding class, found out after completing my BA- and either earned a B or C for organic chem, unsure as of yet, (argh for five week courses!)either way, it was good enough to fulfill my final pre-req to officially become a DePaul MSN student! yippie

Hi,
Newbie here, pretty intense forum. I've applied to a few
fast-lane schools but still not sure which one would be
ideal for me. I'm >40 and independent.
Does anyone know about Johns Hopkins ABSN (13Mo) grade
policy? Two C's are out? Two D's are out? Out of 90-100
on Hopkins and 30-40 in DePaul, how many did not make
it through in recent years? Would it be wise to go to a
school that does not kick out students? Are there schools
like that out there? In my opinion, passing NCLEX and getting
good school grades are two different things.
Thanks.
Amitai.

jhoonk · Aug 13, 2005

Amatai,
Sorry to not respond in the forums, (glad to be here).
DePaul's program turns out to have a 90% NCLEX pass rate. During the program we are allowed to get a single C and we must keep our GPA at a B, (which is 86% minimum.)
re-req to officially become a DePaul MSN student! yippie

Genn,

Thank you again for responding to my old question.

Regarding the 'resistance' from old timers to CNL role

of Master's Entry RNs, I found this

http://www.nacns.org/positionstatement.pdf

So, within the Nursing community itself, there

is a division, probably caused by power conflict

as well as money stuff.

Some of them do ignore the level of education

PAs are getting in two year program after which

they get Master's. They all work with(for) physicians

after they get license and work fine as a leader.

This is to balance the education/profession of

Nursing with other health care providers, I think.

Old people just don't know how fast today's young

people are absorbing materials and applying them.

With good mentorship (possibly from CNS staff???),

CNL could be educated in two years (not less) to

meet the demand of health care. If Nursing cann't

do this, the whole Nursing profession will be behind

other health care providers.

(I feel like I am talking to myself.)

Amitai.

Gennaver, MSN · Aug 13, 2005

...
So, within the Nursing community itself, there
is a division, probably caused by power conflict
as well as money stuff.
...
Amitai.

Hi Amitai,

There may be more going on as well as the conflict theory, it may also be simple resistance to change and concern over the unknown. Some health care staff may have only heard 'rumors' of these educated nurses and clinical staff and rumors may also be filled with the ideas of an accelerated education, (with all the misnomers that go with it.)

Accelerated really is a misnomer isn't it? We don't earn our Masters in a weekend and we our programs do not skimp on the clinical aspects. Upon graduate we will be masters prepared in nursing and also able to sit for the NCLEX.

These are not easy programs by no means. I spoke with the Chairperson of Nursing at the junior college that I was originally signed up with for the fall, (but I relinqueshed my seat). In order to complete my Associate of nursing I only needed something like six classes, less than 36 credit hours, to be completed in two years.

In order to complete the masters in nursing I will have 107 credit hours and more than 90 of them are at the 400 level courses.

Our reputation will tell and once we are actively working alongside other nurses.

Our behavior and non-flaunting of our credential will also speak for our cohorts as well. I am seriously going to try to make it a point to NOT say that I have an MSN to anyone who does not have a need to know.

We will have an onus of responsibility to our cohorts as well in order to represent our programs. If in so many years we feel that we all did get a good preparation, Great! If the future we feel that we were ill-prepared I think we would have a responsibility to say so, (for patients well being and for future students sake to save the money and time and work).

Hopefully I am making sense in a simple way. I really do believe that education is not equal for all, we are lucky to have these opportunities. Granted we have worked hard to be able to take advantage of these opportunities but, in inner Chicago in several neighborhoods there are many people who do not even have the opportunity to put their hard work to use and to take advantage of the opportunities we all have to earn our advanced degrees for nursing.

I read in Ghandi's Experiment with truth that "Chance favors the prepared mind." We are not just lucky, we were also very prepared due to our hard work and willingness.

This is long post just to try to say that I do not necessarily hold it against ALL naysayers because some may just not truly be aware even though some naysayers may just be naturally toxic-type people.

Okay, I have to go, I am really prattling too, and off topic, sorry Amati!

Genn

oregonrene · Aug 13, 2005

jhoonk, I don't know where you are located, but the University of Portland (Oregon) has a new grad-entry Clinical Nurse Leader program. Here is the link:

http://www.up.edu/up_sub.asp?ctnt=858&mnu=210&chl=400&lvl=2

University of Portland is a Catholic university on a beautiful campus and has a very good reputation.

elizabells, BSN, RN · Aug 13, 2005

jhoonk, I don't know where you are located, but the University of Portland (Oregon) has a new grad-entry Clinical Nurse Leader program. Here is the link:
http://www.up.edu/up_sub.asp?ctnt=858&mnu=210&chl=400&lvl=2
University of Portland is a Catholic university on a beautiful campus and has a very good reputation.

I wonder if this new CNL thing has anything to do w/ the AACN's push to have the doctorate as the degree for NPs?

jhoonk · Aug 14, 2005

I wonder if this new CNL thing has anything to do w/ the AACN's push to have the doctorate as the degree for NPs?

Yes, I quote here a paragraph from

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/DNP/pdf/DNP.pdf

No wonder the current CNSs are against this whole thing.

They would have to go back to school for Doctorate!

:-o :-o :-o :-o

Concurrently and with input from the Task Force on the Clinical Doctorate, the AACN Task

Force on Education & Regulation II developed the Working Paper on the Clinical Nurse

Leader Role (AACN, 2003), which subsequently was accepted by the AACN Board in

October 2003. The development of this new nurse role, Clinical Nurse Leader (CNL), was in

response to growing client care needs and to the changing health care delivery environment.

In February 2004, the AACN Board approved the development of new models of nursing

practice and nursing education at the master's degree in nursing level that result in a new

nursing professional, the CNL (AACN, 2004). The CNL is a generalist, provides care in all

health care settings at the point of care, and assumes accountability for client care outcomes

by coordinating, delegating, and supervising the care provided by the health care team. The

CNL is not an advanced practice nurse*, as defined in this position statement. As the

education of the generalist nurse is elevated to the master's degree level, it is reasonable to

assume that specialty education and the education of those individuals prepared for the

highest level of nursing practice would occur at the practice doctoral level.

*Advanced Practice Nurses (APNs) is used here to refer to the four direct care roles: certified nurse midwife

(CNM), certified registered nurse anesthetist (CRNA), clinical nurse specialist (CNS), and nurse practitioner(NP).

:-o :-o :-o :-o

Pt. asks a male nurse with white lab coat "are you a doctor?"

He responds, "yes, I am, but I am an NP"

Pt. asks again "so, you are really a nurse."

he reacts disgustingly this time "yes, but I am a doctor!"

Pt. pushes the alarm button and says "you better come

here quick, I have a mad man here!"

Amitai.

Jess RN · Aug 15, 2005

I'm done done DONE with Micro! Woooo hooooo! We (me, hubby, our two girls and the nanny) fly out tomorrow night for two days in SF and then 9 days in Hawaii!!!

We get back on the 27th and I have orientation at BC on the 1st! I can't believe it is all starting so soon. I've been taking prereqs one semester at a time for the past two years!

I just found out that a woman from my A&P class is going to be in my class at BC. Way cool. She's in her 40s, so it will be nice not to be the oldest one in my class! :chuckle

I may not be checking in much for the next two weeks- but take care everyone! See you in Sept!

-Jess

BCzito · Aug 15, 2005

Hi I am starting BC on the first too. I am nervous and excited... enjoy your trip.

I'm done done DONE with Micro! Woooo hooooo! We (me, hubby, our two girls and the nanny) fly out tomorrow night for two days in SF and then 9 days in Hawaii!!!
We get back on the 27th and I have orientation at BC on the 1st! I can't believe it is all starting so soon. I've been taking prereqs one semester at a time for the past two years!
I just found out that a woman from my A&P class is going to be in my class at BC. Way cool. She's in her 40s, so it will be nice not to be the oldest one in my class! :chuckle
I may not be checking in much for the next two weeks- but take care everyone! See you in Sept!
-Jess

Jess RN · Aug 15, 2005

Hi I am starting BC on the first too. I am nervous and excited... enjoy your trip.

Hey there! That's great! I thought I was the only one on this board going to BC this year. Welcome to allnurses! I don't know if you have read much of this and the other direct-entry threads, but it is a great network of support!

Where do you live? What brought you to nursing?

See you on the 1st!

-Jess

BCzito · Aug 15, 2005

Hi I am starting BC on the first too. I am nervous and excited... enjoy your trip.

oh well I did behvioral neursoscience as an undergrad at northeastern U in boston, did co-ops there at pharmaceutical companies, clinical research, and animal research, then spent the last year working at a group home for women with borderline personality disorder while I applied to grad school. I am going to be doing psych/mental health NP/CNS. I eventually want to open my out psychotherapy office or go in on it with another mental health professional. My biggest fear is becomming a prescription writing machine, and not being able to do therapy. What are you going for? you can see my pic on the http://agora.bc.edu site. I'm sure we're in classes together. I am starting to get really nervous... already started doing those lab manual things... got all my books.... trying to help myself ease back into the pressure. I got that packet about advice from past students and it just made me really anxious! lol hopefully it will work out... I live in Brookline the next town over from chestnut hill. I will be taking the T to school. Where are you comming from?

Jess RN · Aug 15, 2005

oh well I did behvioral neursoscience as an undergrad at northeastern U in boston, did co-ops there at pharmaceutical companies, clinical research, and animal research, then spent the last year working at a group home for women with borderline personality disorder while I applied to grad school. I am going to be doing psych/mental health NP/CNS. I eventually want to open my out psychotherapy office or go in on it with another mental health professional. My biggest fear is becomming a prescription writing machine, and not being able to do therapy. What are you going for? you can see my pic on the http://agora.bc.edu site. I'm sure we're in classes together. I am starting to get really nervous... already started doing those lab manual things... got all my books.... trying to help myself ease back into the pressure. I got that packet about advice from past students and it just made me really anxious! lol hopefully it will work out... I live in Brookline the next town over from chestnut hill. I will be taking the T to school. Where are you comming from?

I was an English major undergrad at Providence a loooong time ago - graduated in '96. I worked in Human Resources and Recruiting after school and then stayed home for the past three years while we had our girls (ages 1 and 3). I have no science background at all other than the prereqs. I did volunteer at a hospital the year before I applied to programs.

I became interested in nursing during my pregnancies- and I'm going for Women's Health. I'm super nervous about the workload and balancing school and family. We live in Watertown. I grew up in MA on the so. shore. My pic is up on Agora too, but it is hideous. That day I went to get my ID it was about 100 degrees and I had a wiggling infant on my lap LOL.

I'm waiting till orientation to get my books. I didn't want to wig myself out on vacation by thinking about them, you know? Nice to meet you- see you on the first!

-Jess