Deciding whether to drop out CRNA school?

burn out · Mar 15, 2007

I have been in your shoes and the best advise I can give is to go with your gut feeling. When I applied to crna school they provided you with a stipend and a contract when you finished, two years later when I actually got in I didn't find out until the first day of school that there was no stipend and they did not want me to work. I had two small children and parents to help. I stuck it out the first year but they found out I was working and made it hell for me. I knew they were not going to let me go on until I stopped working but I had no other income. When it came time to apply for the next years loans I stopped...better to pay off 30 k than 60k .

Do I regret it, yes because I know I would be a good crna. It has been five years now and I am still paying on the student loan.

They did the same thing to another student that had a stipend from another hospital with a contract. After he made it through the program once they would not give him his certificate and told him he had to go through it again after passing all the classes and clinicals. He ended up losing everything .

Take you time making your decision and do what is right for you. I stopped because I was not willing to sacrifice my self esteem and self respect and peace of mind.

micugirl · Mar 15, 2007

Thank you for your honest posting. I was wondering if there were any other factors that fed into your quitting. How were they making it harder on you? Verbal harrassment?, etc. I have started antidepressants, which I have never had to take in my life, and I am going to see what my assignments are for this weekend. Can anyone give me insights on Pediatric and OB set-ups--what you'd definitely expect to see in your student's rooom, regardless if they've had these pts before or not? I love everyone's helpful honesty and ability to be so candid. I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel right now,and I'm trying really hard--I'm hoping these drugs will help. My head's in the clouds all the time now, and the indecision is killing me, and my family (they have been so supportive). Does anyone know if you can claim bankruptcy on private loans for school, like the Sallie Mae?

no-pain · Mar 15, 2007

From reading through your posts it seems that you are having more stressors in your life than just going through the clinical rotations such as family and finances unless I am misinterpreting your responses. I would have to agree with Blanka with regards to being prepared and sticking with it. If you want it bad enough you CAN and WILL get thorough it, remember others have been through your same pain. I would also have to agree with Piscesguy regarding utilizing exercise as a form of stress relief. I may be standing alone on this but I would have to disagree with using medications of any kind to relieve your stress. You shouldn't need a pill to stop from dealing with your feelings.:chair Hang in there! The next thing you now you will be walking down that isle and getting your diploma and this will all be a distant memory or possibly a learning tool for later life.

London88 · Mar 15, 2007

micugirl;

I urge you to hang in there. I was in a similar situation at a clinical site when I was a student. I had no problem setting up for cases, but I was not treated fairly by the clinical director of anesthesia and I spoke to my director who contacted chief of anesthesia and there were major improvements. I was in tears on a regular basis over the way i was treated at that site. However, as a CRNA I love my job. Nobody has the right to grab you. The advise I will give you is you should know how to do a basic setup for any type of case if this is your third rotation not including big cases such as hearts etc. For a pediatric case you should know how to calculate the correct size ETT, have the correct blade, the correct drug doses based on weight. Your life in the OR will improve greatly if the CRNA comes in and find you have the correct setup, which you should be reviewing the night before. By your first post I am getting the impression that you do not know how to set up for your cases and that will cause a lot of problems for you no matter where you go if this is your third rotation. What refernces are you using to set up for your cases?

fence · Mar 16, 2007

micugirl--

Hang in there I know how tough clinicals can be. I have day's that I wonder what the hell have I got myself into. Other days are ok. On thing is talk to your classmates about setups in your particular facility. Keep notes on what each CRNA your with likes and dislikes. Compare notes with your peers. Do not let them run you off stand your ground when you need. If someone is being physical with you pull them aside and tell them you will not tolerate it. I know time drags during clinicals but you will look back a few years from now and this will seem like a very small chunk of time. You will feel like you have won the lottery when you are done and providing a better life for yourself and your family....good luck!!!!

Blanka · Mar 16, 2007

...I just feel like I'm facing my own death everyday, and my Vital Signs & emotions go with that feeling. I cannot smother those either, Blanka...

You need to face your emotions, etc., not to avoid them. It is difficult, no question, but also more healthy and effective over time. Drugs, (antidepressants) on the other hand, will only make you care less when some preceptor starts making your day miserable, but they won't make your real problems (whatever they are...) go away. When you don't care anymore and everything is 'just fine', how do you know you are learning...? $0.02

BTW, don't listen to all those hotshots from your class who tell you how competent they feel around big cases after 3rd rotation. These people often do not realize how much they still do not know. I think it is more healthy to be scared at the beginning and certain lack of confidence is IMHO also normal, especially when people come from units where they had only limited autonomy and were directed most of the time.

Don't you have a friend in your class, who already has some OB experience, so you can ask her/him about recommended setup, etc.? I also know some people, who had similar problems with preceptors in clinicals, but at the end of rotation they received fair evaluation. How has it been for you? It is hard to give you specific advice, without knowing dynamics of your class, program, clinical sites, etc. Just hang in there! Remember, you are winning with every passed day!

ali anesthesia · Mar 16, 2007

I once heard a wonderful lecture from a very prominent CRNA. This person is well known in both anesthesia and surgery circles as being an excellent clinician. In her lecture, she told about how hard it was for her to learn anesthesia and really hated it. Then one day, it all came together and the rest is history. Maybe that day will come for you also.

A few suggestions, take a break, look at ways to change your response to what your preceptors are teaching you, read and study clinical techniques and read the messages and this and the other forums for nurse anesthetists. You will get valuable information and good support systems.

I would like to take exception to the poster who said that we "eat our young" in anesthesia. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. You must be confusing us with generic nursing. I have mentored hundreds of students and those wanting to be CRNAs. But, because anesthesia is so important and the ability to do it competently is so critical, your mentors will be tough on you. We must be the best and brightest.

Ali

ACNP · Mar 16, 2007

Hi Micugirl,

First off, hang in there and don't withdraw. CRNA school is too hard to get accepted! I, too, am in my first rounds of clinical rotation except we have class 3 days/week and clinicals the other 2 days. I'm only on my 2nd clinical site but I can tell you it's much better than the first. We do careplans at my school which helps a lot. Yes, they take some time and effort but they really help you think about what types of cases you are doing as well as the anesthetic implications. This way you can write down drug dosages of your induction drugs, volatile agents with MAC values, extras like Zofran, Decadron, Toradol, and any drips you might be using during the case etc. It also helps you think about positioning of the patient (ex. type of OR table--OSI for a hip repair) and its implications, whether you might need a fluid warmer, bair hugger, A-line set-up, fiberoptic intubation cart, etc. This way when your CRNA is tossing questions at you while you're trying to preoxygenate and get ready to intubate you can answer confidently because you've prepared.:nuke:

Did they teach your class a lab on a basic room set-up? This helped but when I first started I still needed my senior to come one morning at 5am and help ensure I had EVERYTHING you could possibly think of for my 2 back surgeries that day. As far as OB and peds talk with the senior students about a basic room set-up for this group. We haven't talked about peds/OB in class but some of my classmates have already intubated kids. Just try to read up the night before. The Morgan and Mikhail book as well as the Jaffe book are great resources that I use a lot with my cases.

Our class also has a discussion board that we use to communicate with our fellow classmates on our clinical experiences. You can always go talk with your clinical instructor as well as the anesthesia department head at the clinical site. You might feel more comfortable talking with the former since he/she probably knows you better and what you are capable of. I also agree, like jewelcutt, about the antidepressants. If you think they will help, then do it. Just talk with your healthcare provider and decide which one is right for you.

Feel free to pm me. Stay strong!!

Blanka · Mar 16, 2007

I would like to take exception to the poster who said that we "eat our young" in anesthesia. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. You must be confusing us with generic nursing. I have mentored hundreds of students and those wanting to be CRNAs. But, because anesthesia is so important and the ability to do it competently is so critical, your mentors will be tough on you. We must be the best and brightest.
Ali

Do I sense a little contradiction? First of all, I was comparing CRNA preceptors mentoring SRNAs with MDs, mentoring anesthesia residents. Between those two groups, I have found that many CRNAs tend to run the show like a bootcamp, whereas physicians are treating residents more as their colleagues.

I am sure you are not implying that best way to make your students best and brightest is to get physical with them or scream at them every time they tape eyes differently (then you would like them to), because that's how another CRNA 'drill seargant' forced them to do it during last rotation at a different clinical site, etc. It is not that they have no right or reason to demand it, it is the way in which they do it.

When I was at school, I met many, probably majority, CRNAs, who were nice and reasonably tough, but it takes only one mean person per site to ruin your day. Generally, you don't learn anyhing this way you could not learn in a more collegiate way anyway. This was my original point, as I was sure that micugirl ran into one of those preceptors who confuse toughness with meanness.

I could stop right here, it really says it all, one thing I would add is that the statement about CRNAs eating their young came originally from a preceptor. He said it with certain pride... : (

London88 · Mar 17, 2007

micugirl;

ACNP has given you excellent advise as well as good reference material. I also utilized Jaffe as a student and even as CRNA if i am going to do a case that i have never done before i still browse through Jaffe so that I know what to expect. It is a lifetime learning process.

rierie · Mar 18, 2007

I think when anyone is handed admission into a field of medicine they should get a lifetime prescription for antidepressants and some PRN Xanax....good luck!

I have high respect for you. Think about all you went through to get where you are at and how many people you beat for that position??? If you drop out that means that someone else that really wanted could have been in that spot. Hang in there and don't put up with any crap. You can put up with alot but just be professional and stern when you need to be. Don't take the criticism personally. You must keep that thick skin through your career...might as well build it now.

ali anesthesia · Mar 19, 2007

On another board, there is a lot of discussion from CRNAs regarding the caliber of people applying for anesthesia school. It is the general consensus that more and more people are applying because they think it will be easy money and that they are not motivated to understand the professionalism required to be a CRNA.

I hope all of you who are considering this career path, spend a lot of time shadowing a busy CRNA. A friend just got off 48 hour call with lots of trauma and OB cases. Another colleague is available 24/7/365 and has to pay for and find his own relief. It is not a field for everyone, nor should it be. I like to think we are the elite. But that is just me.