Complete 1 yr ICU req. in the first year of CRNA Schoo?l

anesthesia_insomniac · Nov 10, 2008

by the way...I find it humerous that you for some reason correlate someone getting into school with "minimum experience" to labeling someone as a "minimum" type of person. I don't think CRNA programs accept nurses who got the minimum grades in their BSN or put minimum efforts into their past jobs...therefore you continuing to try and establish a direct relationship to these attributes is a joke

Happy Halothane · Nov 10, 2008

Your advocacy of "minimum" may have a different tone for other readers. The point is quality and diversity. The fewer experiences you have overall, the more you will rely on your attending...this applies to you as an SRNA as well.

Most of us agree that a CV-ICU prepares an RN extremely well for anesthesia education. If you were able to attain this 1 year critical care experience, thats fantastic. However, most intensive cardiovascular units will not allow a new RN, or even a med-surg RN to touch their patients...you usually need to work your way in from another unit. This is because they don't have the time to teach you the basics...the patients are just too sick.

The same applies for anesthesia education. Nurse anesthesia is nursing, and it is critical care. There is no time during the program to teach basics. With a solid background, success then becomes achievable only to those with the drive to keep up.

There are 3 main reasons people fail out of an anesthesia program: personal issues, academics, and poor clinical performance. You can make a definite correlation to clinical performance and previous work experience.

anesthesia_insomniac · Nov 10, 2008

Once again, I agree that quality ICU experience is important with the regards to success in the clinical setting as an SRNA. My point is that just because a person gets into anesthesia school with minimum time required, what they experienced in that time is what is important. I may have been reading it wrong, but I felt you were stating that minimum experience (in relation to time) = a "a minimum type of person"...and this of course I would have to disagree with

MerrittSRNA · Nov 12, 2008

Happy, Mammoth, and Insomniac-

You've all made good points, but you've all taken your eye off the ball! The original question was: is it a good idea to get into anesthesia school and THEN do your 1 year in the ICU during your first year of school?

Based on reading your multiple replies, I think you would all agree that this may not be the optimal route. But through your ego-driven rantings and one-upmanship, you have missed the point.

One of you made a comment about giving the MDA's ammunition with one of your comments. Don't you think the anti-CRNA crowd would love to see the division you have displayed here? The only way we will reserve the PRIVILEGE (and it is a privilege that can be taken away from us both by the courts and the public) to continue to practice our future profession is through presenting a united front.

Try to think of the example we must set here for the future applicants, as well. You don't think they're reading everything that's posted here, trying to find any information that will help them during their application process?

Take your arguments like this to the private arena.

And try not to let your egos get in the way of your assessments in the OR.

FutureNurseSaga · Nov 12, 2008

My question was if anyone had heard knowledge of a program where the required experience could be completed after one is accepted and is a CRNA student. I'm guessing there is no such program b.c I haven't found one through research nor has anyone here mentioned a program like this.

In respects to the ICU years discussion, I will let the schools I apply to decide how many ICU years is acceptable.

nurselizk · Nov 13, 2008

Happy, Mammoth, and Insomniac-
The original question was: is it a good idea to get into anesthesia school and THEN do your 1 year in the ICU during your first year of school?
Based on reading your multiple replies, I think you would all agree that this may not be the optimal route.

This is not only not the optimal route, it is not a possible route. You suggest that we shouldn't disagree openly about a valid issue of debate, yet you perpetuate this absurd notion?

anesthesia_insomniac · Nov 13, 2008

MerrittSRNA...if you are currently an SRNA or even if you already graduated, I think you would know that SRNA's and ego cannot co-exist. Within that discussion, backgrounds were mentioned as clarification of where we came from, thats it. This site exists so that disagreements can be talked about and opinions can be heard, thats what makes it fun. I don't think halothane and I having a differening of opinion on the amount of experience to get into CRNA school will make us seem like a divided profession...I think that might be a little overboard.

mammothsnw · Nov 13, 2008

Merrit...The eye was taken off the ball when Happy decided to derail the question with a "peeve of his". Myself and the other poster were only defending ourselves and the other "1 year ICU to CRNA path folks" out there because our experience was belittled and we were spoken to like so many bitter nurses like to speak to their preceptees. So the reason for "discussion" which is what open forums are for...is to let all of those people that you mentioned reading this know that it is possible to gain the necessary skills for anesthesia school within the time frame that the AANA has mandated. I was given the same excuses by others on this site for not got going straight to CRNA school 2 years ago...but here I am...in school and doing very well in class and clinicals. For all of you reading..you will always be surrounded by some bitter nurses, or the "the crabs in a bucket" that want to pull you down with them...get your experience and do what is right for you.

Merrit...if you are at Sam Merrit good luck on your Pharm test today...see you on the teleconference screen

Happy Halothane · Nov 14, 2008

Let's put closure to this: No accredited program should accept an applicant without the required experience....working during your anesthesia education is usually frowned upon, as it would be very detrimental and distracting to the education process of the program.

I am a huge fan of the AANA...and I have been supporting them financially for several years, as they've supported us in maintaining our profession. It is not demeaning to the AANA that I suggest future CRNAs have a strong clinical background before learning anesthesia. To remain competitive, all of us need to be remain highly proficient in our anesthetic practices.

With a future demand in nurse anesthetists, you've likely noticed many more programs being available to train SRNAs. My concern is that with the retirement of experienced clinicians and influx of new graduates, we need to uphold the integrity and clinical expertise of our profession.

Mammoth and Insomniac, I'm sure you were both well prepared entering your program...and learned very quickly that the learning curve was very steep. The people that get behind usually never catch up. I, and the 39,000 CRNAs depend on you and your colleagues to keep our profession strong. High training and expertise = respect and job security..so you can understand my "peeve" about those wishing to take short-cuts.

3 things make a successful SRNA: Drive, Aptitude, and solid clinical experiences. Past clinical experiences are absolutely critical, because you are now expected to be an expert in the care of that patient. You only have 2.5 years to learn anesthesia, as there is no time built in to learn basic nursing care.

We are not a "minimum" kind of profession.

mammothsnw · Nov 14, 2008

Happy...well said...good luck with school and your career.

anesthesia_insomniac · Nov 14, 2008

Nicely put Halothane...I agree with everything you just stated. Hopefully due to the competiveness and nature of the profession, the integrity, competency and respect will always be maintained. Slackers should not be able to make it through any of the programs.

fosdene · Nov 21, 2008

Let's remember the Anesthesiologist Assistant program that requires only 8 hours of shadowing an Anesthesiologist Assistant? These are two different programs, but when they finish the program they are just as competent as CRNAs. There are some limitations like practice states, difference in programs, and independence. One year of ICU is the minimum, if you have more it makes it better.

So I do agree with your statement " GIVE THE PROFESSION AND YOUR PATIENTS THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE". A lot of us take the 1 year ICU experience and run with it. Why? Because of age, present lifestyle (no kids, finances, no home, family support etc). Not because we do not want to give the profession respect.

Thanks

:nurse:

I have to agree with Happy Halothane. This is one of my peeves, too.
What is it with everybody's rush to get into anesthesia school with the bare minimum? I think that everyone who applies must think about what it is that they are trying to accomplish by shortcutting the rules. What exactly do you think you are going to do as a CRNA? Do you think that you are better than spending a couple of years in the ICU acquiring the must have knowledge that will only crack the surface of what you are going to learn in anesthesia school? And if your program is front-loaded, you will barely have time to keep up with the material let alone work. And when are you going to work? Nights?
Do you realize that all practitioners delivering anesthesia are held to one common standard of care? That's right, we have to know it as well as the docs! There are no more order sheets to go by, you're "writing the orders"!
I was fortunate enough to spend 10 years in the OR working side-by-side with CRNA's and MDA's. I witnessed first hand what could and DOES go wrong with an anesthetized patient. Therefore, when it was time for me to get my ICU experience, I sought out the sickest patients I could find in order to see what happens and how to treat it. AND I spent time there....I didn't rush. I gave the profession the respect it deserves! When things go wrong in the OR, your reaction must be automatic. How are you going to learn that in a textbook?
GIVE THE PROFESSION AND YOUR PATIENTS THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE!