CNA to LPN

RNrural · Apr 14, 2007

Wow...I am impressed at your skill level!! But, you must admit that the skills you possess are much beyond the skills of a CNA. You would be what I would consider to be the exception to the rule as far as experience. If I had done what you had I would have challenged the NCLEX-PN also. The fact still remains that the CNA courses would never come close to preparing you to take the exam...

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Apr 15, 2007

If I were in a hospital and I found out or knew about an LVN who challenged the LVN Board as a CNA, I'd REQUEST another nurse....I personally feel that a CNA really has no business challenging the LVN Board.....There are medications that need to be learned (and taking a pharmacology class isn't suffice to me), FC that need to be inserted etc etc.....and I would want someone who is educated in the nursing field.......BTW, I'm a CNA and I would NEVER consider challenging the LVN Board.....there is just too much at risk if something goes wrong....

pagandeva2000, LPN · Apr 15, 2007

I can see how the person with the military experience may be able to challenge the state boards, because of the fact that the CNA and LPN role was combined. I am not sure if that is the case for others, because if questions are asked about pediatrics or maternity, there is no background to pull from. Just reading it alone may not be enough for some people...an explanation from an instructor, even poorly represented may be needed. It makes me think that a specialized exam is made specifically for them, and that insults all that an LPN student went to school for, in my humble opinion. But, again, I guess if they allow it, I would have considered that option as well.

postmortem_cowboy · Apr 15, 2007

I'd have to agree with Pagan on this one, a CNA, even a very seasoned one cannot with pharmacology and a chemistry course function effectively and safely as a PN/VN, period. They may allow it, but it's dangerous. Now this isn't to say that it can't be done, but it's definately not safe, and I would definately be very leary about someone that achieved their license in this manner touching me or someone I loved, especially seeings I had so much to go through to get my license. You cannot replace a years worth of clinical setting practicing to be/do the job of a PN/VN by observing as a CNA. And sorry to say, even in my pharmacology class, it's different than what I got in nursing school. In this one, it's just classes of meds, what they do, there's nothing... and I repeat NOTHING as far as a therapeutic dose, how to do med calcs or administration of drugs. Just because you watch a nurse put G tube meds down, doesn't make you qualified to do it yourself. What if, say you got your license, and first day crushed a med that all of us that went through a vocational/junior college program would know is an uncrushable med and put it down someone's G-tube. Then what? If your licensed, the "I didn't know" or "I was never taught that" doesn't fly with the board when they're going to snatch your license away from you. To me, you get what you pay for. If you go cheap charlie and try it this way, you may get by, you may do well, but the tides are stacked against you. No amount of watching what a nurse does, can explain the "why why why" behind what we do, nor can it replace actually doing what we do.

To each their own, but in my honest opinion, you wouldn't be serving yourself in a true manner by attempting this path, nor would you have your license very long. Nursing school for your PN/VN provides you with a bare bones minimum, with the assumption that you will learn the rest as you go after licensing, and doing your PN/VN in this manner has taken away all of that base that you create to be a nurse.

Just my opinion.

Wayne.

postmortem_cowboy · Apr 15, 2007

Have no fear I am an experienced medical technician in the military. I am the living proof why California has this option. Callifornia is tapping a reach resource of clinically experienced medical technician trained by the best instructors.
I got my licensed thru chalenging the NCLEX-PN in california because I was qualified by:
1. Being in ex-military trained as a Medical Technician.
2. That had taken Pharmacology course
3. Had one year bedside experience in Med-surg
I am lucky enough to have been given this oppurtunity or I would have end up being a CNA in the civilian world with too much experience on my hand.
Let me educate you about our military medics. We are the CNA and LPN mold into one. Your military medics are supervised by RN or a Physician. In the unit the RN supervises the medics. In the Emergency Room your doctors supervises your medics. This is the main reason that we can do a lot of procedures. What I mean is that in the ER we do casting, suture wounds of course not in the face, IV, NG, foley and some that I can's talk to in this forum. Oh! did I mention we injection and immunization too. The the units pretty much the same without the casting and suturing.
Your medics while in the service can be certified in ACLS, PALS, ATLS, and NRP defending on their job description ( the area where they work). We have this highly trained individuals in the Air Force we call "Pararescue" their training is about 2-3 years they are equivalent to a Physician assistant. This group of individuals when you drop them in a hot LZ (people shooting at you) will save your life by any means, or even lose their own sometimes.
So, before you venture into such an undertaking to be an LVN/LPN thru chalenging the boards ask yourself? Am I experienced enough to be an LVN? Is my patient safe with my care? If you answer Yes, buy an NCLEX-PN book and start studying. If, No stop and go to LPN school.
To all our military medics past and present Thank You for serving our country.
Romeo Lima signing off!

That wasn't the issue bro... the issue at hand is a CNA, opting out for NCLEX exams, not a military medic. We're talking CNA only. You have had an AIT, and I forget exactly how long medic AIT is, but it's right around 9 months to a year (yes I was in the army as well) so you've had training. I've worked with an LVN that was a corpsman in the Navy, and he was a great LVN, but he wasn't a CNA and ONLY a CNA. You have a certain circumstance that allows you to apply and take the boards, where a CNA that has had no further education on being a nurse, simply a pharm class and chemistry is being allowed to take the boards. And medics may in fact function as a CNA, as well as an LVN, but LVN's as well function as CNA's and LVN's. Just because you are an LVN, doesn't preclude you from CNA work. It just means you have a higher scope of practice and more is expected from you. It also doesn't mean you can opt out of a CNA's work when it needs to be done.

Medics are taught to IV push meds, which LVN's aren't, they're taught to intubate, LVN's aren't unless you go to an ACLS class. Point is you've had a hell of a lot more training than just CNA school, so therefore you do not fall into this category. You may have had to go get your CNA in the civilian world to jump through this hoop or that and get to the boards, but you fall into a different category.

Imagine this, your 18 year old neighbor goes to a CNA class, passes, takes a pharm class and a chem class and challenges boards, does that seem right to you? Especially after your AIT and how involved it was, and how long you served in the military as a medic? Does pharm, chem and watching for a year as a CNA give you the necessary ground work to challenge the boards to be an effective nurse?

Wayne.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Apr 15, 2007

There is so much that is NOT covered as a CNA on a med-surg floor. They have not witnessed childhood diseases, immunization schedules for adults and children, labor and delivery and the full description of psychiatric illnesses, or as you mentioned, tube feedings with rationale. They have witnessed the SKILL but have not received rationale. Heck, we even forget once we go into specialties, but, the text is available for recall on basic, safe nursing. I have had to go back to the text, and what has saved me is reading the text combined with remembering the lecture or the lab. Fluid and electrolytes...especially potassium, sodium and calcium will probably not be discussed in pharmacology classes. What about nutrition? If they are receiving a specialized exam, then, it is NOT fair to the rest of us who worked hard for our licenses as well as the toll it took to study for and pass NCLEX-PN. Over half of my NCLEX had questions that I would NOT have known if I obtained my license in this manner being discussed.

I'd have to agree with Pagan on this one, a CNA, even a very seasoned one cannot with pharmacology and a chemistry course function effectively and safely as a PN/VN, period. They may allow it, but it's dangerous. Now this isn't to say that it can't be done, but it's definately not safe, and I would definately be very leary about someone that achieved their license in this manner touching me or someone I loved, especially seeings I had so much to go through to get my license. You cannot replace a years worth of clinical setting practicing to be/do the job of a PN/VN by observing as a CNA. And sorry to say, even in my pharmacology class, it's different than what I got in nursing school. In this one, it's just classes of meds, what they do, there's nothing... and I repeat NOTHING as far as a therapeutic dose, how to do med calcs or administration of drugs. Just because you watch a nurse put G tube meds down, doesn't make you qualified to do it yourself. What if, say you got your license, and first day crushed a med that all of us that went through a vocational/junior college program would know is an uncrushable med and put it down someone's G-tube. Then what? If your licensed, the "I didn't know" or "I was never taught that" doesn't fly with the board when they're going to snatch your license away from you. To me, you get what you pay for. If you go cheap charlie and try it this way, you may get by, you may do well, but the tides are stacked against you. No amount of watching what a nurse does, can explain the "why why why" behind what we do, nor can it replace actually doing what we do.
To each their own, but in my honest opinion, you wouldn't be serving yourself in a true manner by attempting this path, nor would you have your license very long. Nursing school for your PN/VN provides you with a bare bones minimum, with the assumption that you will learn the rest as you go after licensing, and doing your PN/VN in this manner has taken away all of that base that you create to be a nurse.
Just my opinion.
Wayne.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Apr 15, 2007

That is the basic point I was trying to illustrate, and you hit the nail on the head much better than I ever could have...this person is well above a CNA and even an LPN in many instances. The military medic has the training and the rationale of why...the CNA may not, even after witnessing skills for an extended period of time.

That wasn't the issue bro... the issue at hand is a CNA, opting out for NCLEX exams, not a military medic. We're talking CNA only. You have had an AIT, and I forget exactly how long medic AIT is, but it's right around 9 months to a year (yes I was in the army as well) so you've had training. I've worked with an LVN that was a corpsman in the Navy, and he was a great LVN, but he wasn't a CNA and ONLY a CNA. You have a certain circumstance that allows you to apply and take the boards, where a CNA that has had no further education on being a nurse, simply a pharm class and chemistry is being allowed to take the boards. And medics may in fact function as a CNA, as well as an LVN, but LVN's as well function as CNA's and LVN's. Just because you are an LVN, doesn't preclude you from CNA work. It just means you have a higher scope of practice and more is expected from you. It also doesn't mean you can opt out of a CNA's work when it needs to be done.
Medics are taught to IV push meds, which LVN's aren't, they're taught to intubate, LVN's aren't unless you go to an ACLS class. Point is you've had a hell of a lot more training than just CNA school, so therefore you do not fall into this category. You may have had to go get your CNA in the civilian world to jump through this hoop or that and get to the boards, but you fall into a different category.
Imagine this, your 18 year old neighbor goes to a CNA class, passes, takes a pharm class and a chem class and challenges boards, does that seem right to you? Especially after your AIT and how involved it was, and how long you served in the military as a medic? Does pharm, chem and watching for a year as a CNA give you the necessary ground work to challenge the boards to be an effective nurse?
Wayne.

postmortem_cowboy · Apr 15, 2007

Touche` and duly noted and thank you for agreeing.. lol.. oh yeah and tag yer it pagan!

Wayne.