To Kevin and other students and practicing CRNAs - page 2
Kevin, I hesitate at posting this on the FAQ thread because I haven't seen too much concern about this paticular subject, and I also like to write a "thorough" post....... ;) You posted some... Read More
Nov 25, '02Occupation: CRNA Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 409; Likes: 12I want to agree with everyone that CRNA school is indeed grounded in more hard science than most BSN programs.
I would like to add a few (estrogen) observations. It has been my observation that historically much of nursing education was guided by the "psych" nurses. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I think it has contributed to our "touchy-feely" attitude that many of us have experienced.
But I believe that we are a profession still in evolution. As more hard science is required to do the job of nursing, hopefully we will come to value it more as a profession. (Although I have to agree with the comments that lack of automony is a huge contributing factor also).
The graduate degree I recently completed had a heavy research emphasis. There were fairly significant contributions from critical care, cardiopulmonary, etc. fields. To the point that the maternal/childbirth people ended up taking a lot of grief in some of my classes for their "fu-fu research". And this was a nursing degree.
So, I am optimistic and hopeful about the future of nursing. As more people with a hard-science-bend get graduate nursing degrees, we can help shape the future of nursing. (Not in any way to downgrade the nurse anesthesia degrees, of course, those are fine also. )
Nov 26, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16Loisane,
It's nice to get a less millitant view of nursing theory. I would avoid any program that stresses the life-span/psychology/nursing theories over the sciences. I will use some of it I'm sure. I'm still treating humans after all:chuckle, but once my BSN is done, I'm going to look for a program like the one Kevin describes. Traditional nursing can't change fast enough for me.
My instructor was teaching everybody how to "heal pain" with your hands. I believe she also used some kind of rock on a string too, but I'm getting the information second-hand. I obviously made an excuse not to be there. My instructor is a really fair, well-intentioned person. I'm very happy for the students that just love the holistic approach. I don't want to spoil thier party, but this is where nursing is headed. I tend to dismiss the holistic side as a rule when I read or witness such a lack of respect for facts.
She was really swinging the rock over people's heads. Not like a sling or anything, but..........seriousely:roll
Everybody, have a good holiday
Keep on posting to the thread. I'll be on it like white on rice after 5 whole days without Allnurses
Nov 26, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 48Peeps, l think it is good to keep an open mind about these things, but l tend to think the amount of emphasis put on the touchy/feely and aternative medicine has been one of the primary detraments to the professional image of nursing.While it is important to be aware of the "whole person", it should be presented in the context of how our applied science may affect them....l had a run in with the president of our nursing class over a pinning ceremony issue because she wanted all the ladies to carry a single rose...l said no way!....we shouldn't femenize our ceremony it wasn't a dang wedding. l contended that if the men couldn't look professional walking down the isle with a rose then neither could the women. Sad to say this consept was lost on most of the class, they didn't know what the big deal was.....but...we didn't cary roses down the isle!...someone did sing "wind beneath my wings though"....l have been told that l am very analytical for a female...l am starting to think that is a good thing!.................LR
Nov 26, '02Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 299; Likes: 4Agreeing with many of you on this thread, one of the classes I have to take next summer to get my MSN is Development of nursing science. I do not know if I will be able to control my mouth if i have to encounter one more nursing theory such as Orem's theory. I dread to think what this class is going to entail . However, classes such as this is needed to complete the anesthesia program and obtain the MSN. The one good thing I have to look forward to is that I am geeting most of these classes out of the way so that when I begin my anesthesia classes in the fall of 2003 I can concentrate on those classes, and not have to spend time writing b------.
Nov 26, '02Occupation: CRNA Joined: Sep '00; Posts: 408; Likes: 1While I like the hard sciences far more than the soft stuff, what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school. If you want things to be different, do your own research, get hired as faculty somewhere and develop a curriculum. The curriculums now are deveploped using ESTABLISHED THEORIES, developed by people who have done their studies and done their homework. suck it up until you decide to change it. Stop whinning, there will be a whole lot you don't like or agree with as a.
Nov 26, '02Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 299; Likes: 4Okay Wintermute. We are sucking and whinning at the same time.
Nov 26, '02Occupation: CRNA Joined: Sep '00; Posts: 408; Likes: 1Multi-tasking, always a good thing.
Dec 1, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16Geeze, I leave for a few days and someone has killed the thread.
Since this is a thread specificly for "whinning", I don't see the point of sucking it up. This is a thread to declare your allegiances, not sit on the fence and yell at everyone to stay on thier side silently. This is a forum for science, not liberal arts majors.
what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school.
Do you think I just entered nursing to change it? I came into it with the perception that nuses function I see nursing school as being something to just "get through" so I can reach a level where I will actually get trained in real science.............how sad.
Kevin has given some examples of how some theorists in nursing "establish" thier hypothesis. I think you should ponder that before making such broad statements. Regardless whether a theory is established or not, the fact remains, it has very little to do with the real science of medicine. Studying soccermomology is not going to advance the actual skills I need, so when I reach the ICU, I will be................what?.....trained to deal with the family while I fumble through trying to learn real science at light speed because my program thought it would be nice to learn psychopsycology?
Dec 1, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 48Originally posted by WntrMute2
While I like the hard sciences far more than the soft stuff, what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school. If you want things to be different, do your own research, get hired as faculty somewhere and develop a curriculum. The curriculums now are deveploped using ESTABLISHED THEORIES, developed by people who have done their studies and done their homework. suck it up until you decide to change it. Stop whinning, there will be a whole lot you don't like or agree with as a .
HMMM...what did l think nursing was about?....well it's been so long since l started...l forgot..LOL....however, l will say this..lf someone bothered to shadow clinical nurses for the purpose of deciding on the career, esp. critical care areas, and then decided that was what they wanted to do....they would be perplexed at the portions of the ciriculum that are theory/philosophy.....making them seem all the more incongruent with the actual reality of the nursing profession....and l think that is the case many times.
We need to change the focus of nursing to the sciences, but shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water either...just less water, more baby...right now the baby is drowning........imo..LR
Dec 2, '02Occupation: CRNA Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 2,000; Likes: 66Ya know, I see Dave's point. Nursing, after all, encompasses a wide range of disciplines, including the scientific, the less scientific, right down to the touchy-feely. I have no problem with that. My original contention all along is that the touchy-feely is what makes us nurses. BUT...
When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely." I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here: All your psychosocial interventions will be for naught if you kill a patient because nursing school didn't teach you that 40 mEq of K+ given IV push was dangerous, and why.
Dec 2, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16By kevin
When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely."
When it came to bedbaths, we had hours of intensive supervised practice to do the procedure exactly as it was sequenced with each movement scruntinized for perfection.
All the talk about "the five rights" with one class that tried to cover the broad subject of pharmacology, while still maintaining the heavily weighted psychosocial aspect. I applaud them for thier creative use of the studyguide space, and what little time they were given to address the subject, but they ignored focus on important mechanisms..............................They failed to include any "pharmacology" questions on the test for that section.
I understand why they would want to ignore it, since they don't grasp it themselves, but one can't grasp pharmacology by reading adverse reactions in a drug guide, and that is where they seem to think we'll get our training.
I have decided to transfer to Maryland and get it done. I don't think the curicculum will be much different, but at least I can take some university level science courses. I wanted the 2 year route to gain experience, but find myself taking stock of what I'm really learning, and realize I don't really want more experience at this level.
Dec 2, '02Occupation: poor nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 2,293; Likes: 86This thread is great! It's just reinforcing the fact that I get downright nauseous just THINKING about all the BS I'd have to endure if I actually go back to college for my BSN....ug!
Dec 2, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 271; Likes: 7Peeps:
Hang in there if you really want to become a crna, since it is the only route to becoming one. However, make sure you really want it because it is a long road to endure especially if you already have these types of feelings about nursing and how it is taught. I can totally relate and felt the same way and still do. So I am just sharing my experience. I think the crna route is great for people who are already nurses because it such an improvement and if they already enjoy nursing it is a win-win situation. But when I see people who really can't stand nursing say they want to become a crna, I think they would better off becoming a PA or MD. the main reason I feel this way is because you have to submit yourself to so much ******** before you can even get to anest. school where if you go the PA or MD route it will be very difficult but at least it will be all science based, therefore, the person will probably be happier. This is just my take on it and how I feel at times as I trudge this road myself. By the way, I liked your story about the excessive amount of bed bath and bed making training you are receiveing. It reminds me of one of my co-workers who has been an ICU nurse for a while, she seems to be obsessed with making a perfect bed but don't ask her to many questions about her pt. or what we are doing for them medically to try to get them well. that is when I think I am really in the wrong profession, however, I am almost in a position to start applying to crna school, so I tolerate it and don't let it bother me. If I had to do it again, however, I would seriously look at the options I mentioned. A good place to work when you get your BSN is a teachinh hospital at least there you will be exposed to some interesting medical training which should keep you going until get to anesth. school. it has been my saving grace, I love being in a academic hospital, you will meet some really interesting teachers and learn a hell of alot more than advanced bed making.