To Kevin and other students and practicing CRNAs

Specialties CRNA

Published

Kevin,

I hesitate at posting this on the FAQ thread because I haven't seen too much concern about this paticular subject, and I also like to write a "thorough" post....... ;)

You posted some excellent responses in my thread about Nursing "theory". Your example of the flawed(I wonder if it should get that much credit) Theapeutic Touch study did so from a scientific, yet not completely medical angle. You described it in a way that a nurse should think, as far as I'm concerned, and I decided I should be looking into anesthesia.

I'm interested in what the "mind-set" of an CRNA program VS the heavily psychosocial, psychological, and sociological base nursing classes of ADN/BSN programs would be like.

As an example of "mind-set", I'll give you some background of my experiences. I observed nurses go about thier daily activities as a CRTT about 12 years ago. I based what a nursing curicculum would be like,philosophy-wise, on those observations. It appeared to be science based, but as I looked at the course descriptions for the prerequisites I began to feel out of place. If it had not been for Anatomy and Microbiology I would not have completed them. I completed psychology(somewhat interesting), but I am still trying to get through Life-span Development. It is somewhat painful for me to try to absorb the material and I feel no connection to it as the other nursing students do. I feel that psychosocial issues are worthy of some attention, but it is the mind-set, the philisophical base if you will, for all of the programs curicculum. I have tried to make it fit, but have dropped the course twice.

Here is a serious issue with it:

My nursing classes this semester are 7 credits. Life-span is 3 credits for a total of 10 credits with this holistic theme. My GPA may crawl through intact, but I need a reason to do all of this. I'm looking at 3 more years to complete a BSN through RN-BSN. It doesn't look likely that they'll lay-off all the therapeutic-touch-like curicculum so I'll have to suffer through it................ but if the mind-set of a CRNA is in contrast to all that "touchy-feelyness" then it will give me purpose and I would see it as a means to a goal of an autonomous, scientific career as the specialist I dream of becoming.

I plan on seeking the refuge of the ICU through some kind of internship as soon as I get an RN. That decision isn't dependent on a CRNA track, I just think I belong in that enviroment. I have been seeking a level of expertise and responsibility that is as close to medical science as I can get. From what I can derive from the image of a practicing CRNA, it's as much or more an application of science as floor nursing is a psychosocial pursuit.

All of that has lead me up to this point. I just need to make more than an assumption.

I'll be heading to Florida tomorrow, but I will be watching the board until later tonight.

Nilepoc,

I've started to read your blog. It makes me want one of my own, but I would write forever! Thank you for making it available.

Go Team Testosterone!!:angryfire

Yes, I think I've found "my people".

It's an observation I've made also irae. I think Nilepoc sums it up nicely...............I think just gutting out an RN-BSN as efficiently as possible is the route to go. Just hold your breath and go.

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I want to agree with everyone that CRNA school is indeed grounded in more hard science than most BSN programs.

I would like to add a few (estrogen) observations. It has been my observation that historically much of nursing education was guided by the "psych" nurses. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I think it has contributed to our "touchy-feely" attitude that many of us have experienced.

But I believe that we are a profession still in evolution. As more hard science is required to do the job of nursing, hopefully we will come to value it more as a profession. (Although I have to agree with the comments that lack of automony is a huge contributing factor also).

The graduate degree I recently completed had a heavy research emphasis. There were fairly significant contributions from critical care, cardiopulmonary, etc. fields. To the point that the maternal/childbirth people ended up taking a lot of grief in some of my classes for their "fu-fu research". And this was a nursing degree.

So, I am optimistic and hopeful about the future of nursing. As more people with a hard-science-bend get graduate nursing degrees, we can help shape the future of nursing. (Not in any way to downgrade the nurse anesthesia degrees, of course, those are fine also. )

loisane crna

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Loisane,

It's nice to get a less millitant view of nursing theory. I would avoid any program that stresses the life-span/psychology/nursing theories over the sciences. I will use some of it I'm sure. I'm still treating humans after all:chuckle, but once my BSN is done, I'm going to look for a program like the one Kevin describes. Traditional nursing can't change fast enough for me.

My instructor was teaching everybody how to "heal pain" with your hands. I believe she also used some kind of rock on a string too, but I'm getting the information second-hand. I obviously made an excuse not to be there. My instructor is a really fair, well-intentioned person. I'm very happy for the students that just love the holistic approach. I don't want to spoil thier party, but this is where nursing is headed. I tend to dismiss the holistic side as a rule when I read or witness such a lack of respect for facts.

She was really swinging the rock over people's heads. Not like a sling or anything, but..........seriousely:roll

Everybody, have a good holiday

Keep on posting to the thread. I'll be on it like white on rice after 5 whole days without Allnurses:sniff:

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Peeps, l think it is good to keep an open mind about these things, but l tend to think the amount of emphasis put on the touchy/feely and aternative medicine has been one of the primary detraments to the professional image of nursing.While it is important to be aware of the "whole person", it should be presented in the context of how our applied science may affect them....l had a run in with the president of our nursing class over a pinning ceremony issue because she wanted all the ladies to carry a single rose...l said no way!....we shouldn't femenize our ceremony it wasn't a dang wedding. l contended that if the men couldn't look professional walking down the isle with a rose then neither could the women. Sad to say this consept was lost on most of the class, they didn't know what the big deal was.....but...we didn't cary roses down the isle!...someone did sing "wind beneath my wings though"....l have been told that l am very analytical for a female...l am starting to think that is a good thing!.................LR

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Agreeing with many of you on this thread, one of the classes I have to take next summer to get my MSN is Development of nursing science. I do not know if I will be able to control my mouth if i have to encounter one more nursing theory such as Orem's theory. I dread to think what this class is going to entail . However, classes such as this is needed to complete the anesthesia program and obtain the MSN. The one good thing I have to look forward to is that I am geeting most of these classes out of the way so that when I begin my anesthesia classes in the fall of 2003 I can concentrate on those classes, and not have to spend time writing b------.

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While I like the hard sciences far more than the soft stuff, what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school. If you want things to be different, do your own research, get hired as faculty somewhere and develop a curriculum. The curriculums now are deveploped using ESTABLISHED THEORIES, developed by people who have done their studies and done their homework. suck it up until you decide to change it. Stop whinning, there will be a whole lot you don't like or agree with as a SRNA.

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Okay Wintermute. We are sucking and whinning at the same time.

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Multi-tasking, always a good thing.

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Geeze, I leave for a few days and someone has killed the thread.

Since this is a thread specificly for "whinning", I don't see the point of sucking it up. This is a thread to declare your allegiances, not sit on the fence and yell at everyone to stay on thier side silently. This is a forum for science, not liberal arts majors.

from WintrMute2

what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school.

I observed nurses performing daily tasks, and discussed the duties they performed and the skills required. I think you would find a consensus, if you paused to ask the question between tirades, among students who are disallusioned by the difference between what a nurse is responsible for, and the actual training.

Do you think I just entered nursing to change it? I came into it with the perception that nuses function I see nursing school as being something to just "get through" so I can reach a level where I will actually get trained in real science.............how sad.

Kevin has given some examples of how some theorists in nursing "establish" thier hypothesis. I think you should ponder that before making such broad statements. Regardless whether a theory is established or not, the fact remains, it has very little to do with the real science of medicine. Studying soccermomology is not going to advance the actual skills I need, so when I reach the ICU, I will be................what?.....trained to deal with the family while I fumble through trying to learn real science at light speed because my program thought it would be nice to learn psychopsycology?

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Originally posted by WntrMute2

While I like the hard sciences far more than the soft stuff, what did you all think nursing was about? Didn't you guys check into it or did you all think nursing would change for you in the middle of school. If you want things to be different, do your own research, get hired as faculty somewhere and develop a curriculum. The curriculums now are deveploped using ESTABLISHED THEORIES, developed by people who have done their studies and done their homework. suck it up until you decide to change it. Stop whinning, there will be a whole lot you don't like or agree with as a SRNA.

HMMM...what did l think nursing was about?....well it's been so long since l started...l forgot..LOL....however, l will say this..lf someone bothered to shadow clinical nurses for the purpose of deciding on the career, esp. critical care areas, and then decided that was what they wanted to do....they would be perplexed at the portions of the ciriculum that are theory/philosophy.....making them seem all the more incongruent with the actual reality of the nursing profession....and l think that is the case many times.

We need to change the focus of nursing to the sciences, but shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water either...just less water, more baby...right now the baby is drowning........imo..LR

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Ya know, I see Dave's point. Nursing, after all, encompasses a wide range of disciplines, including the scientific, the less scientific, right down to the touchy-feely. I have no problem with that. My original contention all along is that the touchy-feely is what makes us nurses. BUT...

When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely." I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here: All your psychosocial interventions will be for naught if you kill a patient because nursing school didn't teach you that 40 mEq of K+ given IV push was dangerous, and why.

Kevin McHugh

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By kevin

When the touchy feely is all there is, we are no better than volunteers, offering hugs. There must not only be a balance, but I believe nursing must give greater weight to the scientific aspects of care over the "touchy-feely."

Well, hugs and bedbaths.:chuckle

When it came to bedbaths, we had hours of intensive supervised practice to do the procedure exactly as it was sequenced with each movement scruntinized for perfection.:rolleyes:

All the talk about "the five rights" with one class that tried to cover the broad subject of pharmacology, while still maintaining the heavily weighted psychosocial aspect. I applaud them for thier creative use of the studyguide space, and what little time they were given to address the subject, but they ignored focus on important mechanisms..............................They failed to include any "pharmacology" questions on the test for that section.

I understand why they would want to ignore it, since they don't grasp it themselves, but one can't grasp pharmacology by reading adverse reactions in a drug guide, and that is where they seem to think we'll get our training.

I have decided to transfer to Maryland and get it done. I don't think the curicculum will be much different, but at least I can take some university level science courses. I wanted the 2 year route to gain experience, but find myself taking stock of what I'm really learning, and realize I don't really want more experience at this level.

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