Should Anesthesia Be an only MD Profession - page 3

I knew this would get your attention. This question is for those seeking, in current studies, and practicing anesthesia. I understand the economics and statistics for various practice... Read More

  1. by   Oldsalt
    Quote from dianacs
    Two questions come to mind:

    Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare the definitions of nurse and physician?


    Why do you not support doctorates for CRNAs?
    Thanks for your post.

    In my use: Doctors/Physician (A person licensed to practice medicine; a medical doctor) was intended to be used synonymously- but doesn't change or lessen the point.

    And I am certainly not against Doctorate programs - in fact I support them - but I meant that it is not necessary (IMHO) at this juncture for CRNAs.

    In reading some post - I am surprised to see that some think that I am a MDA - I am not.

  2. by   Brenna's Dad
    Interesting stuff Old Salt.

    I'm wondering where you did your CRNA education. Unfortunately, it appears that many current programs are being limited in regards to their scope of practice. Some programs it appears are not teaching fiberotpics or nerve blocks.

    The graduate CRNA is therefore limited in their practice.
  3. by   Roland
    NileProc, I was not attempting to be over literal in my reading of the TOS. However. I would contend that the word research is somewhat vague and could benefit from clarification. As we have recently seen in the courts with regard to various issues, even questions of established constitutional law are subject to a plethora of interpretations even by learned judges. It is not ridiculous to believe that well meaning posters might arrive at different conclusions as to the meaning of the term in its context here.
    Last edit by Roland on Feb 27, '04
  4. by   Oldsalt
    Quote from Brenna's Dad
    Interesting stuff Old Salt.

    I'm wondering where you did your CRNA education. Unfortunately, it appears that many current programs are being limited in regards to their scope of practice. Some programs it appears are not teaching fiberotpics or nerve blocks.

    The graduate CRNA is therefore limited in their practice.
    Thanks for your question.

    I graduated from Gonzaga University which was excellent in central axis blocks but was completely lacking in Fiber optics and Peripheral Nerve Blocks (didactics only). I have had the fortune of working with some very open minded MDA's that have taught me my other advance skills (With much Patience and lots of humor). Followed with training at a Large Teaching University and Military Centers - which encourage the use of nerve blocks (since its obvious application in battlefield settings). I tell you this in complete humility and do feel very lucky to have received such training.

    Unfortunately, many CRNAs are not blessed with such opportunities in meeting this very small minority of MDA's willing to educate (or learning in a military setting) and this is certainly the case for many of my fellow Anesthetists. So, every opportunity I have to share these skills and techniques with other CRNAs - I do.

    I have been fortunate .....Completely by happenstance - My point of this post is to encourage those seeking to be educated not to be simply accepting of the status quo but to seek out and demand a complete education

  5. by   versatile_kat
    Kudos to your last response Old Salt. I like to believe that every CRNA/SRNA out there decided on the profession becasue they DON'T just want to sit around learn passively. But from some of your posts, it sounds like they do.

    I hope that once I've completed school, I'll have the chance to work with experienced CRNA's/MDA's who enjoy teaching the novice CRNA (like you seem to). Thanks for posting and welcome to the board!
  6. by   JSB
    For those of us who will be applying in the next couple of years, would some of you share what school you attend and how well rounded your education is? I would hate to be confined to strictly B&B cases because that's what my education was limited to. Thanks!

  7. by   deepz
    Quote from gotosleep
    I disagree. I welcome their presence here.

    randy SRNA

    Don't quite know why you think we might disagree, Randy, as I do not object to the presence of MDs and did not say such; I only stated that from some of their posts, one might wonder as to an MD's motivations for being on this CRNA BB.

    Have you never known anyone to do the right thing for the wrong reason?

  8. by   charles-thor
    Welcome to the board Oldsalt. I'm sure there is much we can learn from you.
  9. by   Roland
    Why couldn't someone (who is capable) offer a series of training seminars where these procedures (such as peripheral nerve blocks) were presented and then demonstrated. I would think that many CRNA's would be willing to shell out some money and time (or perhaps their employers) in order to improve the scope of their practice. In addition, I wonder if some of these techniques might not be one difference between some of the 24 and 30 plus month programs that are out there. These are the sort of issues that could be dealt with via post graduate certifications.
  10. by   Brenna's Dad
    That's exactly what happens Roland.

    However, i'm a wee bit concerned that the physicians who are controlling most team anesthesia practices are limiting the practice of CRNAs in an effort to provide a measure of distance between themselves and CRNAs. For instance, if CRNAs can't learn/do fiberoptics they are essentially unable to meet the standard of anesthesia care.

    This may be conspiracy theory on my part however. I have no really evidence to base this premise on.

    I do agree with Oldsalt in regards to patient advocacy however. Physicians, especially in the US, are for the most part excellent patient advocates.
  11. by   Roland
    Well as you may know I believe that conspiracies are the rule rather than the exception ( I always thought that If I had a fancy Ph'D in Psychology or Sociology I might write a book entitled something like The Conspiratorial Animal about how conspiracies are fundamental to many sociological, political, and economic processes from the very dawn of history to modern America). However, IF this is the case the best thing that CRNA's could do would be to undertake aggressive efforts to educate every active CRNA up to standard who will undertake the training. In addition, efforts could be made to encourage anesthesists to practice in CRNA groups rather than MDA groups (or working in a setting where they will be under primarily MDA supervision) in those areas which will permit this arrangement. For me the bottom line is that OF COURSE MDA's will seek to erect both overt and sublime barriers for CRNA's. It's not because they are bad people or that they are less than professional. It's just the way things are done in business, virturally EVERY business from appraisers to zoologists. However, that doesn't mean that CRNA's should just lay down and let it happen.
  12. by   Oldsalt
    Roland thank you for your post:

    Though much can be gained from seminars - they don't offer what actual training provides: numbers in real life situations- this must start in one's training - not ad libbing once graduated.

    Furthermore, the degree of use this knowledge can be utilized is somewhat hampered if one returns to a limited scope practice to begin with.

    Book/Seminar knowledge is completely inadequate if not combined with experience and repetition. I don't mean to be sound pretentious, but the reality is, is that one does not become proficient overnight at one of these seminars.

    Many are insightful, educational, and worthwhile - but they do have limitations


  13. by   Brenna's Dad
    I agree Oldsalt. This education must take place in your graduate education.
    It is my understanding that it is with this in mind (and the ASA difficult airway algorithm) that the AANA is mandating fiberoptic didactic and instruction be incorporated into CRNA education.

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