Here's what AAs really think of CRNAs - page 4
And this comes from the PRESIDENT of the American Society of Anesthesiologist Assistants Again, assertions that AAs and CRNAs function at the same level -absolutely misleading. And, what's... Read More
May 4, '04Occupation: ICU Nurse Joined: Feb '02; Posts: 386; Likes: 5I also have to agree, "anesthesia nurse" is not the appropriate term and does not denote respect. I have too long and hard for my education to not be respected.
May 4, '04Joined: Apr '04; Posts: 51; Likes: 1Well, I believe that some of you are indeed against me personally, but that's beside the point.
When you make statements as if they are fact it feeds the problem. AA's currently practice in 19 states. We just passed legislation in the biggest of them all - Florida. Florida was seen as the lynchpin in the national arena since it is historically the most difficult state to pass credentialling legislation. Other states will now follow in short order. A third program is set to open this summer.
Trust me - we are here to stay.
By the way, it's the hostility that hurts you guys and makes you seem unprofessional.
May 4, '04Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 365; Likes: 5i don't see what is wrong with anesthesia nurse... i am an anesthesia doctor... who cares?
by the way, don't be so hell bent on having anesthetist as part of your title, because in Great Britain, the term anesthetist (until the last few years) was primarily used for the anesthesia assistant who sets up the room and equipment, and draws up drugs...
May 4, '04Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 7I am not against you personally, but I am agianst any possible threat to my livelyhood which is what you represent. If MDA's get there way I will iether have a low paying job or no job. and how will I pay my student loans.
yes, what I am saying is that I belive you and your cohorts would like to put my family on the street. and noone will swallow that easily.
May 4, '04Occupation: CRNA Joined: Aug '03; Posts: 1,188; Likes: 26GeorgiaAA - i truly have nothing against you personally or professionally - i am sure that after 14 years you are an excellent practitioner in all ways. The thing that bothers me is that i have to have a BSN in nursing, years of critical care experience, and another nearly 3 years of intense training that allows me to call myself a Nurse Anesthetist...and i hold a deep respect for that ... I feel very slighted when we are called anesthesia nurses - it implies that we are "handmaidens" of an MDA which we are most definately not. AA's can practice in 17 states (didn't know that - thanks for the education) - but under the supervision of an MDA - whether they are "in the room" or not - they are professionally ultimately responsible for the patient...this to me shows a distinct difference in roles - which IF complied to i have no issue with - i do take issue when the "rules" are not complied to - because then the lines of distinction are blurred...
like i said - your experience i am sure has made you a wonderful provider - but there is no way that a new AA has anywhere near the experience a new CRNA does - the years of critical care experience alone places a Nurse Anesthetist heads and tales above..it has to - because experience is 90% of the game. I just feel that comparing AA's to CRNA's is like apples and oranges and shouldn't be done.
May 4, '04Occupation: ICU Nurse Joined: Feb '02; Posts: 386; Likes: 5I'm not so sure about that Tenesma. In Canada at least, which is of course based on the British medical system, an Anesthetist is a physician who practices anesthesia. (Not that I want to project myself as a physician).
Athomas is of course correct, anesthesia nurse does not give the correct impression of what CRNAs do. Anesthesia doctor on the otherhand, probably does give the correct impression.
May 4, '04Occupation: RN. Neuro ICU Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 449; Likes: 3Actually I prefer the term Anesthesia Specialist. lol ... since we are having a battle of names.
or "lord Anesthesia".. top that... wait here comes one.
" distiguished Anesthesia crem-dela-crem"
woo, I am almost dessert now.
just trying to add some lightheartedness.
I do like the anesthesia specialist one though.
May 4, '04Occupation: CRNA Joined: Aug '03; Posts: 1,188; Likes: 26how about "royal anesthetist"...
i am partial to "queen anesthetist..." yes- i think i shall adopt that one...LOL
great job on the laughs ....
May 4, '04Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 144; Likes: 5Loisane, your post was excellent. Thank you for your insight. The distinction you make is clear - and also an angle that I hadn't considered.
And DeepZ, you always inject a bit of fire into the discussion! Thanks for the explanation of reimbursement.
Pnurse, the issue is far more complex than who is supervised and who works independently. Do a search on this board for the several recent threads.
LBhot, I hope you clearly see that there is more difference than job outlook. But since you asked, the last time I checked www.gaswork.com, there were 1138 jobs posted for CRNAs (obviously, some may be repeats, agency, etc). There were 3 AA postings. AAs are not PAs. They can practice in a limited role in a minority of states in this country.
Alansmith, I think we need to get you and DeepZ together for a beer at the National convention. Now THAT conversation would be a hoot!
User69, did you really mean to say "as long as they are not students"? Are you not just starting nursing school, not even an RN yet? Who are you going to practice on? Because let me tell you, starting an IV in an orange is not the same as a screaming, kicking meth-user who just arrived in your ICU pooping blood. And "anesthesia nurse" is meant to be condescending. There are nurses in endoscopy and special procedures that call themselves "anesthesia nurses". They are not CRNAs, and "anesthesia nurse" is a non-technical, made-up name. Few people in the public can even pronounce anesthetist, let alone grasp the scope of the job description.
Tenesma, the term anesthetist (pronounced ah-neeth-ta-test or ah-neese-tha-tist with some regional variation) is a common term for physician anesthesiologists across the British isles.
Athomas, how about "Anesthesia Diva?"
And seriously, Georgia_AA, I appreciate your thorough post. Your explanations were helpful and your description of the salary issue is true in the Atlanta metro area and surrounding towns, as I understand it.
By your own admission, though, youcommonly do extremely complicated cases from beginning to end with little to no involvement from my supervising MD
The other key issue at stake here is that the acceptance of this "anesthesia care team" model in which AAs and CRNAs function interchangeably serves as a springboard for the future restriction of CRNA scope of practice. AAs cannot rise to the current level of practice of CRNAs by virtue of their training and licensure, so the CRNA scope of practice is restricted to allow for equitable working conditions. This is not acceptable.
And let's be honest. Physician anesthesiologists are extremely concentrated in metro/suburban areas or those with a higher quality of life. The real shortage lies in the underserved, rural areas and those with less desirable working conditions. AAs cannot practice independently, AAs must have a supervising anesthesiologist, and anesthesiologists typically do not choose to work in areas with the greatest need, therefore AAs cannot be the solution to this country's anesthesia provider shortage, contrary to the attestation of your national organizations.
Many thanks to all for this dialogue...Last edit by Athlein1 on Jun 19, '04
May 4, '04Occupation: Fulltime bookworm Joined: Feb '03; Posts: 187Since I do love to call myself a princess, I'm going for "Princess Anesthetist". Kinda has a nice ring to it!
May 4, '04Occupation: CRNA Joined: Aug '03; Posts: 1,188; Likes: 26i am diggin the "diva" one...i could do that....LOL
hey - i like beer too - what about me in seattle?!?!?!
May 4, '04Joined: Mar '04; Posts: 24I'm curious about the schooling for AA's. I remeber talking with a cardiac surgery PA who had his bachelors degree in chemistry. How much school is there after bachelors degree. This PA seemed very new to the medical field, and unexperienced with patient care.
May 4, '04Occupation: RN. Neuro ICU Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 449; Likes: 3oh , how i wish i could go, I think I'll be putting needles in dummies backs
ps. to bad this site doesnt have a chat function so we could have a real time chat with whos on at the time.