Canada does recognize nurse entry

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 2, 2006

Hiya again,

Okay, more information that discredits the misguided statements about Canada not recognizing not only our direct entry nursing degrees but also about our accelerated or fast-track nursing degrees.

While taking another look at some Canadian nursing universities I also uncovered what they call "compressed programs". Good grief, I really thought that those blanket statements which discredit our nursing degrees were hogwash!

Okay, pasting a bit about "compressed" degrees.

Pasting:

The Compressed Time Frame Bachelor of Science in Nursing Degree (BScN) is a 19 month program that qualifies graduates to apply for registration with the College of Nurses of Ontario. This is a concentrated 5 term program requiring students to study in the fall, winter and summer terms over 19 months. The program is offered at Western and must be completed on a full time basis. Students in this program graduate in June after the second year. Students entering this program need to seriously consider outside responsibilities related to finances, work and family, as they will need to study year round.

PROGRAM POLICIES

End Paste, this was from the University of Western Ontario! Ha, okay, well enough said about trash-talking the "Accelerated or Fast track" nursing degrees from the states. Hmph! :)

Gen

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

Hello,
While searching the internet I came across something that directly disputes a statement made in an earlier thread from a Canadian nurse about direct entry to nursing programs.
Anyhow, just to clarify, direct entry programs are graduate programs for non-nurse majors.
I cannot find the old thread to update but, wanted to share that not only does Canada endorse direct entry but that they have them as well.
Pasting:
McGill University offers both Masters and Phd level education. McGill has a unique "Generic Masters" program in which individuals who have hold a non-nursing degree, with no previous preparation in nursing, can complete a masters of nursing. http://www.nursing.mcgill.ca/
(Added:23-Jul-1998 Hits:1414)
EndPaste.
This is akin to the type of program that I am in.
I guess it was the sweeping generalization from the poster who wrote that Canada didn't accept "the" american direct entry program that made it stick out so much in my mind. Come, on there is no "the" program in the US anyhow.
Okay take care,
Gen

The issue is with the length of time of the program. Currently if you check the regs for immigration, they require the full two year program for licensure, especially in another country.

There is not an issue with working in that country, but when you try to go to another country. That is where the issue comes up.

Even look at the foreign doctors, they have completed all of the pre-reqs that are needed to get into a nursing program, but to be able to work in the US, they are all completing a two year program if it is in their country. If they do their nursing in the US, then yes, they can use the Acclereated programs. The issue is with what immigrations' current requirements are. Same thing for Canada. They will accept a Canadian that went thru the program, or a foreigner that trained there, but if you try to train there as a Canadian, and then wish to work in the US, it just isn't going to meet immigration requirements. At least witht he requirements that are on the books right now.

Things may change, but if you are asking what the reuqirements are right now, today, accelerated programs done out of the US are not accepted, as well as going the other way. It is immigration issues, not Board of Nurins issues in all cases.

And it was me that made that other post.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

Immigration doesn't look at compressed programs, only the length of time, same as most states. They require at least a two year program so 14 or 16 months doesn't make it for US immigration rulings.

Nothing to do with Canada, my brother in law went to Med School there at McGill, but what will be accepted for the Visa Screen Certificate by CGFNS, and the accelerated programs are not accepted.

CGFNS is the one that issues the Visa Screen Certificate, which is required for any foreign nurse to work in the US, and as of yet, they are not accepting it. And without the VSC, you cannot work in the US.

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 3, 2006

The issue is with the length of time of the program. Currently if you check the regs for immigration, they require the full two year program for licensure, especially in another country.
There is not an issue with working in that country, but when you try to go to another country. That is where the issue comes up.
Even look at the foreign doctors, they have completed all of the pre-reqs that are needed to get into a nursing program, but to be able to work in the US, they are all completing a two year program if it is in their country. If they do their nursing in the US, then yes, they can use the Acclereated programs. The issue is with what immigrations' current requirements are. Same thing for Canada. They will accept a Canadian that went thru the program, or a foreigner that trained there, but if you try to train there as a Canadian, and then wish to work in the US, it just isn't going to meet immigration requirements. At least witht he requirements that are on the books right now.
Things may change, but if you are asking what the reuqirements are right now, today, accelerated programs done out of the US are not accepted, as well as going the other way. It is immigration issues, not Board of Nurins issues in all cases.
And it was me that made that other post.

Hello,

Thanks for responding, I couldn't remember who it was. What still doesn't make sense is why is the license not recognized? Especially if the schooling is comparable? As for the schooling, if they are university degrees from reputable universities it seems absurd to claim that they are not accepted compared to other US universities which are.

However, since my program is a two year Masters generalist, (similar to which is offered in Canada) it would lend that my program would be accepted according to this logic.

Gen

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

It is the length of time of the program. The issue that was originally being discussed was the accelerated BSN program, not the MSN which even as for non-RNs is a three year program, one year to get the BSN, then two more for the MSN. But it still comes down to clinical hours, and even with the MSN programs, direct entry, there may end up being some issue with the clinical hours. Most MSN programs that are clinical based, do not offer enough hours in the other areas to meet the US requirements.

It isn't for me to decide, but comes down to what CGFNS approves if the nurse wishes to work in the US. They evaluate each case on a case by case basis.

And the accelerated programs do not meet immigration requirements in any other country, other than where the training is done, at least currently.

The reason that this initially came up was because some students wanted to go thru this program and then work overseas with some relief organizations, again the 14 0r 16 month programs have not been accepted yet.

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And with your program, especially if it is the MSN, make sure that you get enough hours in each of the areas , if you are ever planning to work in the US.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

And another thing to throw in, it is the NCLEX exam that has reciprocity, once you take it, you never have to retake it, but each state can also set their own educational requirements. And that is their right to do so.

If your goal is to work in the US and in a specific state, I would discuss it with them first.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

And just thinking about something else, Ontario only recognizes a four year degree, so an RN from the US with an ADN and even twenty years of experience cannot get a license to work in the province of Ontario. And I still have not seen anything in writing that they are accepting a 14 month accelerated BSN from the US. Nor from any other country, either. That was the whole premise of the original post, nothin got do with actual programs but immigratuion requirements if they apply to the person.

A current three year license from the UK is not accepted for licensure in Canada or the US without making up additional hours, as their training is now different from that in Canada, as well as the US.

Does this mean that I agree with it? No, I don't, but each country, as well as province or state is free to set what ever requirements that they wish.

And do you think that there is any difference in an ADN RN vs. an RN from an Accelerated program? There isn't. But we do no make the immigration laws, and this is what this whole thing started over.

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 3, 2006

And just thinking about something else, Ontario only recognizes a four year degree, ....

Suzzanne,

Darn. My interest is because I want to go to Canada myself to work as a nurse. I was hoping to work as a remote or rural nurse with first nations communities. If my degree is not recognized I will try to apply to either one of those two Canadian universities that I posted about, the one with the compressed RN degree or the other with the Direct Entry to Nursing Master's for non-nurse majors and then become recognized that way.

Hopefully some of my classes would transfer but, if not, oh well, then I will just have to spend a couple more years in school and will have dual degrees, one for Canada and one for the States.

Gen

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 3, 2006

And another thing to throw in, it is the NCLEX exam that has reciprocity, once you take it, you never have to retake it, but each state can also set their own educational requirements. And that is their right to do so.
If your goal is to work in the US and in a specific state, I would discuss it with them first.

However my state is not a compact state, but, my neighboring state is. So, I did wonder if I should sit for the NCLEX-RN across the state line and then pay the feel to add my licensure for my own state?

You make me wonder though, if I hadn't taken the NCLEX-RN yet then for sure I wouldn't be eligible to test for Ontario right? Being a licensed RN is only one of the factors for eligibility, (working as an RN for two years I think may be another and so on).

Gen

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 3, 2006

Immigration doesn't look at compressed programs, only the length of time, same as most states. They require at least a two year program so 14 or 16 months doesn't make it for US immigration rulings.
Nothing to do with Canada, my brother in law went to Med School there at McGill, but what will be accepted for the Visa Screen Certificate by CGFNS, and the accelerated programs are not accepted.
CGFNS is the one that issues the Visa Screen Certificate, which is required for any foreign nurse to work in the US, and as of yet, they are not accepting it. And without the VSC, you cannot work in the US.

Hi again,

Okay, while I still need to look into it to be sure, it seems like from what you are sharing that my program will indeed be recognized, (since it is a two year program). This is good news.

Gen

suzanne4, RN · Feb 3, 2006

However my state is not a compact state, but, my neighboring state is. So, I did wonder if I should sit for the NCLEX-RN across the state line and then pay the feel to add my licensure for my own state?
You make me wonder though, if I hadn't taken the NCLEX-RN yet then for sure I wouldn't be eligible to test for Ontario right? Being a licensed RN is only one of the factors for eligibility, (working as an RN for two years I think may be another and so on).
Gen

Lets step back for a moment, you are totally confused on multiple issues.

A compact license will not do you any good if you do not have a legal residence in that state. It specifies that on the actual license.

If the program is approved for Ontario, then yes you can get a license there if you meet their requirements.

The issue is with any non-traditional programs, do your homework first for where you wish to to work and make sure that they are accepted. Not all are all over. Just passing NCLEX doesn't automatically give you a license in every state, the exam has reciprocity, but licenses do not. And if you do not actually live in a compact state, then getting a license in a compact state will not do you any good.