BSN minimum requirement

opie · Mar 9, 2001

Maybe this argument will be resolved in the next thirty years. About fifty-five years ago, doctors were having the same arguments. When someone graduated from medical school, they were considered a doctor. Some doctors started going into hospitals and did an intersnship for a year or less and they were laughed at by the general practioners. Then if you can beleive it, some decided to do a three year residency. Now, besides an intership and residency, doctors are doing fellowships. The arguments were the same back then as they are now. As our society becomes more technologically advanced and the stream of information and knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, it becomes impossible to learn even the basics in two years.

The best nurses are good, not becasue of their degree, but because they are motivated and committed. However, I have no intention of seeing a physician who has not done a residency, nor one who is not board certified. Does it mean that if they are certified then they are an excellent physician? No, but it's all we have by which to judge their skills. We have to raise the entry level of nursing to gain the respect and autonomy nursing deserves.

opie · Mar 9, 2001

Maybe this argument will be resolved in the next thirty years. About fifty-five years ago, doctors were having the same arguments. When someone graduated from medical school, they were considered a doctor. Some doctors started going into hospitals and did an intersnship for a year or less and they were laughed at by the general practioners. Then if you can beleive it, some decided to do a three year residency. Now, besides an intership and residency, doctors are doing fellowships. The arguments were the same back then as they are now. As our society becomes more technologically advanced and the stream of information and knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, it becomes impossible to learn even the basics in two years.

The best nurses are good, not becasue of their degree, but because they are motivated and committed. However, I have no intention of seeing a physician who has not done a residency, nor one who is not board certified. Does it mean that if they are certified then they are an excellent physician? No, but it's all we have by which to judge their skills. We have to raise the entry level of nursing to gain the respect and autonomy nursing deserves.

susanmary · Mar 9, 2001

I do not feel that a BSN should be the minimum requirement to enter nursing. After completing nursing school and passing NCLEX, nurses should be able to provide adequate patient care. I believe that what really counts is what happens after nurses pass their boards. For example, can they apply their nursing theory into practice? How adept are their critical thinking skills? How are their assessment skills? Although theory/clinical in ADN, Diploma, and BSN programs is adequate for entry-level nursing -- it is up to the individual to act as a professional and keep learning. I graduated from a community-college ADN program at the top of my class, but felt there was something "missing." Two years later, completed a BS in Business/Health Studies. Just earned my BSN in December -- I did it for ME. I know my BSN will give me options regarding employment -- there are many bedside and nonbedside positions which require a BSN. The real benefit I received from earning my BSN was the friendship and support I had from my classmates -- didn't matter what degrees/positions we had --everyone in that class was wonderful. My professors stated that they had never seen anything like it. Did earning my BSN make me a better nurse? My honest answer is that I learned a great deal which I have been able to incorporate into my practice. I'm very proud that I earned my BSN -- it means a great deal to me. My name tag remains *******, RN. I did not choose to have BSN added. What my patients need to know is that I'm a caring, competent, registered nurse. We are all registered nurses, aren't we? One more thing, please stop the name calling -- it's getting in the way of the posts. This post has to do with nursing, education, and professionalism -- how professional is it to offensibly attack one another?

Be kind.

Sue

[This message has been edited by susanmary (edited March 08, 2001).]

susanmary · Mar 9, 2001

I do not feel that a BSN should be the minimum requirement to enter nursing. After completing nursing school and passing NCLEX, nurses should be able to provide adequate patient care. I believe that what really counts is what happens after nurses pass their boards. For example, can they apply their nursing theory into practice? How adept are their critical thinking skills? How are their assessment skills? Although theory/clinical in ADN, Diploma, and BSN programs is adequate for entry-level nursing -- it is up to the individual to act as a professional and keep learning. I graduated from a community-college ADN program at the top of my class, but felt there was something "missing." Two years later, completed a BS in Business/Health Studies. Just earned my BSN in December -- I did it for ME. I know my BSN will give me options regarding employment -- there are many bedside and nonbedside positions which require a BSN. The real benefit I received from earning my BSN was the friendship and support I had from my classmates -- didn't matter what degrees/positions we had --everyone in that class was wonderful. My professors stated that they had never seen anything like it. Did earning my BSN make me a better nurse? My honest answer is that I learned a great deal which I have been able to incorporate into my practice. I'm very proud that I earned my BSN -- it means a great deal to me. My name tag remains *******, RN. I did not choose to have BSN added. What my patients need to know is that I'm a caring, competent, registered nurse. We are all registered nurses, aren't we? One more thing, please stop the name calling -- it's getting in the way of the posts. This post has to do with nursing, education, and professionalism -- how professional is it to offensibly attack one another?

Be kind.

Sue

[This message has been edited by susanmary (edited March 08, 2001).]

sonnie · Mar 9, 2001

Let's not stop with the BSN as the entry let's make the MSN the entry level so we can really call our selves "professionals". As you all know MD's have a BS in something but have post grad training and that must be what makes the difference!!!!

sonnie · Mar 9, 2001

Let's not stop with the BSN as the entry let's make the MSN the entry level so we can really call our selves "professionals". As you all know MD's have a BS in something but have post grad training and that must be what makes the difference!!!!

Lburns · Mar 9, 2001

Originally posted by MARTRN:
HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THE STATE BOARD THAN THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU IN A ROOM WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T PASSED THE BOARD EXAM AND BRAG ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS. I NEVER SAID THAT THE STATE BOARD IS WHAT MAKES A GOOD NURSE, SO DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. YOUR RIGHT, THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A STATE BOARD EXAM, THEY SHOULD JUST LET ANYONE BE A NURSE, GET REAL. OH YEAH, AND I LOVE THE ONE ABOUT HOW ANYONE COULD ANSWER THOSE BASIC QUESTIONS, LIKE THE TRASH MAN, SACKER, OR EVEN MY DOG. YOUR HEAD IS OBVIOUSLY SWOLLEN. THE STATE BOARD EXAM IS MORE THAN HOW WELL YOU CAN STUDY THE NCLEX BOOK, BUT SINCE YOU WERE BORN A NURSE, I WOULDN'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

I understand some people have difficulty taking tests, period, but I bet those same people taking the nclex and failing it would pass the clinical aspects taught during nursing school. That is my point in my posting! A 75 question test does very little to show who is going to be a good nurse or not. I know many people who took the review courses and many who bought the books, all passed. The test is not a very good determinant of nursing skills, critical thinking or leadership, all of which are required to be an entry level nurse. Let's determine a more practical test that really reflects nursing, not one that pulls obscure questions from a computer data system.

Lburns · Mar 9, 2001

Originally posted by MARTRN:
HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THE STATE BOARD THAN THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU IN A ROOM WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T PASSED THE BOARD EXAM AND BRAG ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS. I NEVER SAID THAT THE STATE BOARD IS WHAT MAKES A GOOD NURSE, SO DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. YOUR RIGHT, THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A STATE BOARD EXAM, THEY SHOULD JUST LET ANYONE BE A NURSE, GET REAL. OH YEAH, AND I LOVE THE ONE ABOUT HOW ANYONE COULD ANSWER THOSE BASIC QUESTIONS, LIKE THE TRASH MAN, SACKER, OR EVEN MY DOG. YOUR HEAD IS OBVIOUSLY SWOLLEN. THE STATE BOARD EXAM IS MORE THAN HOW WELL YOU CAN STUDY THE NCLEX BOOK, BUT SINCE YOU WERE BORN A NURSE, I WOULDN'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

I understand some people have difficulty taking tests, period, but I bet those same people taking the nclex and failing it would pass the clinical aspects taught during nursing school. That is my point in my posting! A 75 question test does very little to show who is going to be a good nurse or not. I know many people who took the review courses and many who bought the books, all passed. The test is not a very good determinant of nursing skills, critical thinking or leadership, all of which are required to be an entry level nurse. Let's determine a more practical test that really reflects nursing, not one that pulls obscure questions from a computer data system.

RNPD · Mar 9, 2001

originally posted by sheripa...."I asked my uncle about this and he said I don't know why they are like that because me personally as a Dr. I could care less how much education they have as long as they "FOLLOW MY ORDERS CORRECTLY"...."

This statement made by an MD really saddens me. If an MD who works with nurses daily thinks that all an RN is good for is to "follow orders correctly", then what hope is there of educating the general public as to what we really do? First of all, w/o the proper education we are incapable of following orders correctly. As RNs we must think about the appropriateness of the order before we follow it, and then find the best way to carry it out for the individual patient. The MD would also be in a real jam if we were unable to assess the patient and let the doc know when an intervention is needed. To do this we must develop a plan of care and have an understanding of what the correct response or outcome SHOULD be-or we won't know if the patient is responding to the prescribed tx. We also treat the patient as a whole person, including the family-something that most docs forget to do-especially in this age of specializtion.

Now, as an ADN, I feel i do all this very well. I am an extremely competent nurse. I received the basis of my education in school and the bulk of my knowledge on the job. However, i still believe that a BSN should be the minimum requrement for licensure. I believe that a college education makes for a more knowledgable, well rounded person and also is the basis for any professional degree. I am sorry that i did not have the means to obtain a BSN at the time I went to school. I don't know that it would change my own individual practice at this time, but I believe it would certainly open more doors to me should I decide at this late date to change or advance my career. And certainly, knowledge gained is never wasted.

As a closing comment, I do wish that we could all ACT as professionals, no matter what the degree. Some of the posts on this BB have been the absolute antithesis of professional and these people are truly a disgrace as human beings.

[This message has been edited by RNPD (edited March 09, 2001).]

RNPD · Mar 9, 2001

originally posted by sheripa...."I asked my uncle about this and he said I don't know why they are like that because me personally as a Dr. I could care less how much education they have as long as they "FOLLOW MY ORDERS CORRECTLY"...."

This statement made by an MD really saddens me. If an MD who works with nurses daily thinks that all an RN is good for is to "follow orders correctly", then what hope is there of educating the general public as to what we really do? First of all, w/o the proper education we are incapable of following orders correctly. As RNs we must think about the appropriateness of the order before we follow it, and then find the best way to carry it out for the individual patient. The MD would also be in a real jam if we were unable to assess the patient and let the doc know when an intervention is needed. To do this we must develop a plan of care and have an understanding of what the correct response or outcome SHOULD be-or we won't know if the patient is responding to the prescribed tx. We also treat the patient as a whole person, including the family-something that most docs forget to do-especially in this age of specializtion.

Now, as an ADN, I feel i do all this very well. I am an extremely competent nurse. I received the basis of my education in school and the bulk of my knowledge on the job. However, i still believe that a BSN should be the minimum requrement for licensure. I believe that a college education makes for a more knowledgable, well rounded person and also is the basis for any professional degree. I am sorry that i did not have the means to obtain a BSN at the time I went to school. I don't know that it would change my own individual practice at this time, but I believe it would certainly open more doors to me should I decide at this late date to change or advance my career. And certainly, knowledge gained is never wasted.

As a closing comment, I do wish that we could all ACT as professionals, no matter what the degree. Some of the posts on this BB have been the absolute antithesis of professional and these people are truly a disgrace as human beings.

[This message has been edited by RNPD (edited March 09, 2001).]

egmillard · Mar 10, 2001

It appears that you think you are a professional, just because you have a degree. I have met many nurses with diplomas and 2 year degree, who are far better than those with 4 year degrees. I have met incredibly bad nurses with masters degrees. Your education does not define what kind of nurse you are, or how good you are at your job, it simply allows you to gain quicker promotions.

[This message has been edited by egmillard (edited March 09, 2001).]

egmillard · Mar 10, 2001

It appears that you think you are a professional, just because you have a degree. I have met many nurses with diplomas and 2 year degree, who are far better than those with 4 year degrees. I have met incredibly bad nurses with masters degrees. Your education does not define what kind of nurse you are, or how good you are at your job, it simply allows you to gain quicker promotions.

[This message has been edited by egmillard (edited March 09, 2001).]