boards need to regulate MA's

DRBear432 · Aug 23, 2007

Really sick of ma's doing all sorts of things under a dr's license. (or RN license). It is quite amazing the things they do. Scary as a matter of fact. Really feel the boards of Nursing need to take a stand on this issue. They regulate everyting else , why not MA's (medical assistants). I plan on looking into it in Ohio. Any one else ? Don't get me wrong, I love MA's Cna's etc... they are a vital part of the medical world. However, the things they are allowed to do are jaw dropping. Not that skills are difficult but the critical thinking aspect of the skill is another matter. I know they are acting under the license of a DR. but, don't want them to care for my child or 88 yo mother.

Physician's Assistants and Medical Assistants are performing 'physician extension' tasks. It is important to differentiate Physician from Nursing roles and please point this important difference out to our patients.

As far as the term 'nurse' is concerned, anyone can use it (licenced, trained or not!) but most State BON's frown on non registered nurses and non vocational/practical nurses from impersonating one. Fines and jail may be involved depending on the state and the infraction.

Last, collaborative practice is vitally important in our current healthcare environent. Insist on it and deliver it because our patients deserve it. I cannot fulfill my role effectively if I am busy peforming another person's tasks or role. Remind the MA who says they "are just like a nurse" that there are valuable contributions to our paitent's care they can provide that we cannot , and the reverse is also true. Together we can provide a much better level of care than either of us could alone . If this fails, benzoin them to the nearest chair and put them in a closet :devil: . Patient safety comes first.

DRBear432 · Aug 23, 2007

How about each state's Department of Education?
Woody:balloons:

Neat solution but Professional regulation is not in the Department of Education in every state. (NJ= Department of consumer affairs for example). Getting each state to agree on this proposal is a HUGE task.

I would agree that certification does not equal professional licensure. :idea: Maybe we need to recruit these MA's into the nursing ranks so they can 'earn more.'

woody62, RN · Aug 23, 2007

. If this fails, benzoin them to the nearest chair and put them in a closet :devil: . Patient safety comes first.

For some, not even this will work.

What I do not understand is why someone would want to call themselves or allow themselves to be called, something they are not. When I was recovering from diabling injures, I voluntered at a local garde school as a teacher's aide. I was not a teacher, I was an aide. I never referrred to myself as a teacher. And when two of the students I helped, introduced me to one of their parents, as Ms. **** my teacher, I gently corrected them, saying I was a teacher's aide. I was proud of what I was doing, help a teacher. Helping grade school students. Why do some M.A.'s presist in referring to themselves as nurses or allow others to refer to them as nurses. They are not and they should be proud of the fact that they are M.A.'s.

My daughter is an Animal Control Officer. She is not a dog catcher nor is she a police officer. She, and I, are proud of her position and proud of what she does. And neither of us allow anyone to refer to her as anything then what she is, an Animal Control Officer-actually a sgt.

Woody

DRBear432 · Aug 23, 2007

It's too bad that this issue keeps resurfacing, and that we can not all work together to better pt's care, and stop physicians from taking financial advantage of the limitation set as the difference between CMAs and RNS. I am a Certified Medical Assistant which means I took a regulated state board exam at the end of my achieving my Associates degrees in Medical Assisting & Science. I am regulated as every other Certified Medical Assistant is throughout the USA. There are a lot of MAs working out there that went through programs that did not require them to get their Associate'sDegree, and that did not take any boards. Physician's are hiring the uncertified MAs to save $$$ and yes all CMAs & MAs work under the physcian's license NOT the RN's. It's a money issue, why pay a RN $ 20 plus an hour when they can get a medical assitant for $8 - $11, so please do not blame Medical Assistants. Wondering how I know so much? I am presently completing my last semester of nursing school, so my credentials after taking the NCLEX will be RN., CMA.

Congratulations, but please consider dropping the CMA. Physicians and other health care personnel will recoginse and come to depend on your expertise and skill. You do not need the letters, and they link you to the medical community. Professional nurses do not need vestiges which further divide them.

:innerconfWhile I have worked hard to earn numerous certificatons and degrees, I append only 'RN, CCRN' to my signature. Besides, all the letters get confusing.

reesern63, RN · Aug 23, 2007

Congratulations, but please consider dropping the CMA. Physicians and other health care personnel will recoginse and come to depend on your expertise and skill. You do not need the letters, and they link you to the medical community. Professional nurses do not need vestiges which further divide them.
:innerconfWhile I have worked hard to earn numerous certificatons and degrees, I append only 'RN, CCRN' to my signature. Besides, all the letters get confusing.

Besides which, it just wouldn't make sense. You list your certifications related to your licensure and what's pertinent to your practice; CMA has nothing to do with that.

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Aug 23, 2007

Physician's Assistants and Medical Assistants are performing 'physician extension' tasks.

Medical Assistants perform physician extension tasks.

Physician Assistants hold an MSN, see patients on their own, order tests, write prescriptions. They are licensed and regulated by the state. They have a license to lose. Major, major difference!

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Aug 23, 2007

I am presently completing my last semester of nursing school, so my credentials after taking the NCLEX will be RN., CMA.

That would be pointless.

#1 If you were to do that CMA would come before RN because it is the lesser of the two educations. i.e. Nancy Nurse, RN, BSN, MSN.....

#2 It makes so sense whatsoever to do that. You'll only confuse people and they will think you are strange. Good Luck with your studies.

DRBear432 · Aug 23, 2007

In my job searches I've seen a couple of hospitals that hire CMAs. They don't seem to hire them as CMAs though. I've seen CMA certification listed as qualifications under a couple of different lab positions and occassionally an ER tech position. CMA is rarely the only qualifying education for these positions.

I have traveled a bit and have yet to bump into CMA's in an acute care setting. But I also have yet to visit MN!

That said, I can picture CMA's working in acute care if they are working under a physicians supervision and for the physician and not the facility.

However this would have some significant limitations, not the least of which is approval by the facility. Additionally, the presence of facility personnel (RN's, RT's, PT/OT and Medical Technologists) not directly supervised or paid for by the physicians makes the use of CMA's outside the physicians office less likely, but not impossible to envision.

In this cost concious health care environment I can also envision CMA's moving into acute care because of their training. This specialized training would allow them function in multiple tasks within the acute care environment. However, they are likely to assume a different title because the facility rather than the physician is supervising thier activities, and they are still likely to be paid less than licenced personnel.

:balloons:Kudos to you you Floridians. Keep up the good fight. I left in 2002.

reesern63, RN · Aug 23, 2007

That's just what we need in the acute care setting. Talk about a recipe for disaster. The day that would happen would be the day I would resign on the spot.

I have traveled a bit and have yet to bump into CMA's in an acute cate setting. But I also have yet to visit MN!
That said, I can picture CMA's working in acute care if they are working under a physicians supervision and for the physician and not the facility.
However this would have some significant limitations, not the least of which is approval by the facility. Additionally, the presence of facility personnel (RN's, RT's, PT/OT and Medical Technologists) not directly supervised or paid for by the physicians makes the use of CMA's outside the physicians office less likely, but not impossible to envision.
In this cost concious health care environment I can also envision CMA's moving into acute care because of their training. This specialized training would allow training and function in multiple tasks within the acute care environment. However, they are likely to assume a different title because the facility rather than the physician is supervising thier activities, and they are likely to be paid less than licenced personnel.
:balloons:Kudos to you you Floridians. Keep up the good fight. I left in 2002.

DRBear432 · Aug 24, 2007

With respect, as i stated in my previous post. There is no difference in an RN and MA responsabilities in a Doctors office setting. Im sure in a hospital setting there is a great difference. In a doctors office however, there is none.

:nono: Sorry to disagree but check the nurse practice act (or Woody's excellent summary) and compare it to the medical assistant's act (or equivalent if your state has one). There is a clear separation of duties, responsibilities, and care as well as a risk of dicilpine and forfiture of licensure in the event of malpractice for the licenced personnel.

In one part of your response I find potential validity: "in a Doctor's office." Some physicians I know will limit the responsibilities in their practice. In this situation licenced personnel are limited by their employer not by their practice act to similar responsibilities as UAP's or CMA's. Yet even there the licenced individual is held to a higher standard if for no other reason than they can loose their licence if they contribute to an error.

DRBear432 · Aug 24, 2007

We try to have a debate and each and every time there are those who think we are talking about them. We know and have repeatedly said that we know there are good MA's. We do not have a problem with good MA's but those words seem to fall on deaf ears...
Now, back to the regularly scheduled thread....
I do not have a problem with MA's in doctors offices but think I think it should be mandatory to have at least one licensed nurse in the office to supervise the MA's. Question is...if a licensed nurse works in an office and supervises MA's whose license is on the line when they screw up?

Excellent smmary, DutchgirlRN. May I suggest the Licenced Nurse supervise the patient care and let the medical mess flounder. Patient Safety first.

You may find it hard to believe but in some places medical care is in fact consumer (that is patient) driven. Someone has to watch out for the patient's interest in the doctors office, too. Maybe we need a healthcare mandate for physician's offices to have a patient advocate on premise to receive Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement(When pigs fly).

woody62, RN · Aug 24, 2007

I have traveled a bit and have yet to bump into CMA's in an acute cate setting. But I also have yet to visit MN!
That said, I can picture CMA's working in acute care if they are working under a physicians supervision and for the physician and not the facility.
However this would have some significant limitations, not the least of which is approval by the facility. Additionally, the presence of facility personnel (RN's, RT's, PT/OT and Medical Technologists) not directly supervised or paid for by the physicians makes the use of CMA's outside the physicians office less likely, but not impossible to envision.
In this cost concious health care environment I can also envision CMA's moving into acute care because of their training. This specialized training would allow training and function in multiple tasks within the acute care environment. However, they are likely to assume a different title because the facility rather than the physician is supervising thier activities, and they are likely to be paid less than licenced personnel.
:balloons:Kudos to you you Floridians. Keep up the good fight. I left in 2002.

Not if I can help it. I am not be working but I still kept my hand in things. Sorry, no matter how you slice and dice it, your education and clinical experience is not equal to that of an R.N. And if you are well trained, you would release your own limitations. You have very little to lose, herre in Florida, or any other state. You do not hold a license. You are not held to the same standards that a R.N. is, i.e. Florida's Nurse Practice Act. You cannot function outside of your doctor's office. And if I have anything to say about it, you will not function in any of the three hospitals in my county. I don't want to trust my life or the lives of those I love, to someone who thinks so highly of her/himself and so little about the patient.

I have a suggestion. If you want to be called a nurse, perform the duties of a R.N. go back to school, graduate, sit for the licensing exam, pass the exam, then you can call yourself a nurse.

Woody:balloons: