Any young nurse educators out there..

[EmmaSwan47]

I am a young nurse educator, well under the age of 30, with a BSN program. I am currently enrolled in a NP program, and I never thought I wanted to teach.

My question is, are there any other educators my age out there, and if so how to you differentiate yourself from the students. Sometimes I feel that even though I am the professional, because of the age similarities students feel they can confide in me more. It is not an issue with their studies, they are performing well, but experienced older staff see me as too laid back and friendly.

Thanks for your time,

Emma

[llg, PhD, RN]

Wow Mrs? I would have a very difficult time with that type of title as it seems artifical in the sense that you are using it to simply make yourself seem more mature and therefore worthy of the students respect.

What title would you suggest then? Certainly there are situations in life in which being on a "first-name" basis is not the best choice -- and a teacher/student relationship may be one of those times. So ... if you don't want to be on a first-name basis, what would you suggest?

Personally, I work in an environment in which everyone (physicians, upper-level administrators, etc.) use their first names. That's fine with me. I can "command respect" when needed without asking people to call me "Doctor," but if I were in a situation in which the use of first names was NOT the norm, I would not hesitate to use my appropriate title.

llg

[Nesher, BSN, RN]

I guess your last statement says a lot. I don't know whare you are from but clearly school settings are different there than where I live.

I work in a large teaching/university hospital and we are on a first name basis with all the medical staff. My husband teaches in an elementary school and all the students speak to the teachers on a first name basis. All my educational efforts back high school have also been first name basis with the professors, so thus my reaction.

Yes I agree situations might arise that it may be appropriate to use a title, I just don't see post high school education as one of them.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I've also spent most all of my career in large, university settings (hospitals and schools) and in those places, the undergraduates usually used the teacher's last names, not the first. The "privilege" of being on a first-name basis is/was reserved for people who had graduated, passed boards, etc. and are/were considered "professional colleagues of similar status."

In fact, I run a summer extern program for nursing students -- and in spite of always signing my e-mails to them with just my first name, etc. it often takes those students several weeks to feel comfortable using my first name. They come from a variety of schools and many of them are not used to being on a first-name basis with their instructors/supervisors, etc.

So, I guess the cultural norm really does vary from place to place (not surprisingly.)

Back to the original question, the practice of having undergraduate students be on a first-name basis with their teachers is probably not a horrible thing -- but it does facilitate a level of familiarity that might not always be appropriate. A teacher who has to discipline, counsel, give a failing grade, may find it more difficult to do if the two have become to chummy. Sometimes a little distance is for the best.

I also find it interesting that we have gotten so unaccustomed to using anything but the first name, that what used to be considered common courtesy (using the last name and appropriate title) is not considered "odd" and "old fashioned." Even though I tend to be a first-name kind of person, upon further reflection, I don't think that is such a good thing.

Thanks for the discussion. It has made me think.

llg

[pmchap]

In the students that I deal with (in the clinical setting) it would be strange to expect them to work and learn as part of a team without recognising each of them by their first name. For me it would be strange for the students to be calling me Mr. Chapman - that is even the school aged trainees - yet having talked to them many of them do call teachers at HighSchool Mr or Mrs. I feel that the respect I gain isn't because I am a teacher or a Mr. it is because I proide them with knowledge and my practice shows them that I actually do 'practice what I preach'. I have taught in some high school where students will call certian teachers Mr or Mrs and respect is the last thing they have.

I belief that respect is something that must be mutual - and must be earnt - by the teacher in proving that they 1. know their stuff 2. are able to teach (share) their stuff and 3. respect their students as individual students. Students earn the teachers respect by 1. understanding their role as a student 2. listening to and evaluating the teachers stuff and 3. actively attend to learning requirements.

I am curious to know why some lecturers, doctors or whoever the case is almost demand the title - the use of title itself does not indicate that the user is doing anything other than using the title. I myself still call some of my past teachers etc Mr or Mrs - this is because I understand that for them (dare I say in their generation) a title was the way that respect was shown.

Cheers

pmchap

[Nurse Bethie]

This is a great discussion!

I am 29 (almost 30) and I am full time at a nursing college in Ontario. I actually head up the Clinical Skills Lab (on campus mock hospital area) and have found many different reactions.

I do not find that the students have difficulty accepting me as the instructor (and yes they call me by my first name). They accept me because I am here to help and they like having a friendly face.

I find that the faculty who have been educators for a long time have the greater difficulty. I still work caual as a home care nurse to keep my hand in the ever changing patient care realm, and I find that it is older faculty who find me threatening in some way. The fact that I am young and have a permanent full time position may be the problem.

What do you suggest to help me become a part of the team rather than "the new kid"?

Thank you alll!

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

why are we all so threatened by our peers?? i don't get it. you would think they would be thankful that someone will be replacing them when they retire!! kind of reminds me of nursing in general. let's try to be nice to one another to keep the profession going.

as for advice, i don't know. i'll be in your shoes shortly. all i know is i'm constantly reminded of how young i am, in a joking sort of way. but i give it back to them, when they talk about things that happened before i was born :chuckle

[pmchap]

Perhaps we are threatened by peers because we do feel that they are older - & therefore at times treat us as the 'babies' or with kid gloves. I was amazed at the 'mothering' I recieved from a few of the well meaning educators when I started. I am not knocking them in the slightest - but it has the potential to give the perception of 'because you are new & young we think you don't know what you are doing' when some boundaries are then tested by younger educators (ie first names vrs Ms or Mrs or Mr) then I think some alarm bells start going off is some older educators heads.

It is curious that many people who grew up young adults in the 60s/70s find the concept of a change in how respect is shown difficult to understand/accept.

Cheers

Peter

[llg, PhD, RN]

This is a great discussion!

I find that the faculty who have been educators for a long time have the greater difficulty. I still work caual as a home care nurse to keep my hand in the ever changing patient care realm, and I find that it is older faculty who find me threatening in some way. The fact that I am young and have a permanent full time position may be the problem.

What do you suggest to help me become a part of the team rather than "the new kid"?

Thank you alll!

They may feel threatened because they fear that you will disrupt things -- that you will initiate waves of change that they don't want to deal with right now. They may have worked very hard for many years to organize their work in a way that works well for them and fear that you try to change things and cause a lot of stress in their lives.

If that is the case, then they may warm up to you when you demonstrate that you respect them and the way they have done things in the past. If you want to make some changes (which is a natural and positive aspect of the evolution of things), be sure to do so in way that demonstrates respect and consideration for them. Illicit their input, listen to what they have to say, incorporte their ideas, etc. as much as you can. Then if and when you make a few changes and/or do a few things differently, they will not be so stressed and will learn to trust you -- and respect you, too.

With a little time, they will accept you as part of their team if you make an effort to join their team. Sometimes, new people come into a place and try to change things immediately. That tends to put the people who build the current systems off a bit. A smarter strategy is to first demonstrate that you are a team player by being a team player -- support them. Then, as you find things that need changing, you'll be in a political position to make the changes you need to make.

Good luck,

llg

[pmchap]

They may feel threatened because they fear that you will disrupt things -- that you will initiate waves of change that they don't want to deal with right now. They may have worked very hard for many years to organize their work in a way that works well for them and fear that you try to change things and cause a lot of stress in their lives.

If that is the case, then they may warm up to you when you demonstrate that you respect them and the way they have done things in the past. If you want to make some changes (which is a natural and positive aspect of the evolution of things), be sure to do so in way that demonstrates respect and consideration for them. Illicit their input, listen to what they have to say, incorporte their ideas, etc. as much as you can. Then if and when you make a few changes and/or do a few things differently, they will not be so stressed and will learn to trust you -- and respect you, too.

With a little time, they will accept you as part of their team if you make an effort to join their team. Sometimes, new people come into a place and try to change things immediately. That tends to put the people who build the current systems off a bit. A smarter strategy is to first demonstrate that you are a team player by being a team player -- support them. Then, as you find things that need changing, you'll be in a political position to make the changes you need to make.

Good luck,

llg

Very good points llg, I'll never forget the look on the faced of a Senior Educator when I suggested one of the Learning Packages didn't really present any information that hadn't already been covered - it was only when I realized that she had developed the package that I understood why she was so shocked. We where able to work through things and she is great to work with now (and yes we did rework the learning package).

[llg, PhD, RN]

Very good points llg, I'll never forget the look on the faced of a Senior Educator when I suggested one of the Learning Packages didn't really present any information that hadn't already been covered - it was only when I realized that she had developed the package that I understood why she was so shocked. We where able to work through things and she is great to work with now (and yes we did rework the learning package).

I'm old now (49 years old) ... but got my MSN at the age of 26, so I know what it is like on "both sides of the fence." I was once the young, brash "know-it-all" who could sometimes be a bit irritating. As I have gotten more experience, I have learned how to accomplish more by developing my political power and positive personal relationships.

I have also learned to investigate the history of things (projects, learning materials, etc.) before I go shooting off my mouth, passing judgment on them. :-) Sometimes, things are the way the are for a good reason. They may not be perfect, but they have developed as they have because of factors that were important at the time. When we are new to a place or situation, we need to learn about those factors ... and show courtesy and respect for the people who dealt with those situations before us. It's not always easy for me to "hold my tongue," but I find that if I do, I often get more accomplished. (Maybe that is why I state my opinions so firmly on this bulleting board!)

The story you told above is a great example of such a situation. Thanks for sharing it.

llg

[ginnyw]

I completely know what you are going through! I am getting my master's in nursing education, and am currently a grad assistant teaching clinicals in a BSN program! I am 26 and I often feel as if the older students (older than myself) don't respect me and don't think that I know as much as they do (even though I have been a nurse, and they are just students). I take my job very seriously, but often find myself trying to prove myself to these students. I work with the nurses in the unit where I teach my students, so they know that I know what I am doing and don't have a problem with my teaching skills, instead it is sometimes the students!!

[llg, PhD, RN]

When I started teaching at the age of 26, I was teaching graduate school -- not undergrad -- and many of the students were not only older than I was, but also had more experience in nursing. I had to focus on doing the best job I could to get them what they needed and earn their respect from the way I handled their class. They had to see that I could meet their needs before they could learn from me.

That was a long time ago.

llg