Any guys with visible tattoos?

Hamcarver · May 19, 2011

I have no problem with covering my ink in the workplace, Truthfully...I have concealed it during my education, just to conduct my own little experiment in regard to how one is perceived...I dress concervatively, answer with raised hand, and address my superiors as Dr., Sir, Mam, Mr. Ms. or Mrs; This is second nature to me, because of my upbringing. Ultimately, I feel I will be judged on my merits and not on my taste in art.

cpl_dvldog · May 19, 2011

You will be judged on your merits after someone gets to know you, until then all anyone has is a first impression. You already know this I am certain. Everyone is judged on first impressions whether they are good or bad. If a 20-something black guy walks into a job interview with his pants below his butt he will be treated differently than the same guy in a suit. It is just human nature. Conformity or not, if you want to play the game you have to play by the rules set in place by those that make the rules. That's just life.

jillebean · May 20, 2011

I'm female, with 6 tattoos. Only one is slightly difficult to cover. Both of my wrists are tattooed, but my watch easily covers my other. I'm happy to cover it up. I realized when I got it that, like it or not, there would be situations where covering it would be best. I don't agree, but I comply. I for one would be completely comfortable with a completely tatted up nurse caring for me. It's all about attitude, and if they're caring for me in a professional manner, the tattoos are a plus :) Go

Rob72, ASN, RN · May 24, 2011

The Bill of Rights should be amended so that persons cannot be discriminated based upon the presence or absence of visible tattoos. Not everyone wants to see tattoos... ok... well this is 2011 and it is time to accept diversity.

Okay, I'll be blunt. How much diversity do you accept? Pedophilia, okay? It better be, because if we accept all manner of "expression", there can be no limitations, because everything is relative to individual experience. This is not hyperbole, its a long-running philosophical discussion I've had many times. Logic is algebra for thought/argument.

So-ci-et-y offers significant benefit to it's members. If one is unwilling to surrender some personal excess (tats cannot be referred to as "rights"), it begs the question whether one is capable of making valid decisions about quality of care, decisional support, effective coping, enhanced family function, etc.. If your position fails the logic test, you have no position.

Having said that(rant off), I have a fair spattering of ink- lots on the chest, and one arm. Having that, and quite a bit of time in subculture life, I will say that tats, piercings, etc., are generally (though not always) ineffective coping mechanisms, and I'm not sure I totally disagree with the DSM's categorization of them under "self-mutilating behavior."

Professionally, the only people for whom tats and (to a more limited degree) piercings are not a problem are:

1) When the object in question is small or inconspicuous.

2) The person is Really. Damn. Smart. and Very Professional.

If you're a loudmouth( "You GOTTA ACCEPT ME!!!), unkempt, party-hardier, or a fast draw with your weiner, tats are just an early warning system. It's not about you, or what you like, but about the ability to deliver care. If you find yourself so dedicated to counter-culture ideals that you are unable to make reasoned decisions, don't be surprised when you are held to account for those decisions.

I've hired one smart bastich because he fit criterion #2, and I could see his full sleeves under his long-sleeves. Tats and his personality told me that he was intelliegent, but not so unconventional as to be socially dysfunctional when dealing with a broad demographic.

I've discounted other candidates out of hand because their counter-culture dedication strongly indicated that they were exceedingly poor team players. Ergo, I have some basis for what I'm saying, in the social-consequences area...

cpl_dvldog · May 24, 2011

Often times a person's expression of uniqueness make them not so unique afterall. To rebel against society and show they are an individual often times people get tatts, get piercings, wear Goth clothing, wear their pants below their butts, etc. Now I ask, how unique is someone with tattoos, a girl with her nose or bellybutton pierced, some guy with pasty white skin and hair dyed jet black, or a young black man showing everyone what his boxers look like? To express their individuality they do what tens of thousands of others do. That's not being very unique. When a person does something knowing it is outside the norm of society they better be prepared for the consequinces of that decision. You cannot force someone to accept a decision you made, regardless of the reason. That would be like me taking a vow of silence then getting upset because a company won't hire me as a Customer Service Rep.

Hamcarver · May 24, 2011

@Rob72 Pedophelia? In that regard, you have compared a psychological disorder involving the sexual interest of children, to an artform of the human body...Thats a bit of a lopsided analogy, don't you think? "Self-Mutilation"...Would that infer that one who is circumsized is to be regarded as a rebel, anarchist, counter-culturist, deviant? I understand that first impressions, and ones ability to be a team player are of major importance (especially in the field of nursing)... I just feel that stereotyping a potential employee should be put on the shelf in place of ones intellect, skills, and personality (ie. the hiring of an individual who has decided to mark his/her body in the name of artistic expression.

Rob72, ASN, RN · May 25, 2011

@Rob72 Pedophelia? In that regard, you have compared a psychological disorder involving the sexual interest of children, to an artform of the human body...Thats a bit of a lopsided analogy, don't you think? "Self-Mutilation"...Would that infer that one who is circumsized is to be regarded as a rebel, anarchist, counter-culturist, deviant? I understand that first impressions, and ones ability to be a team player are of major importance (especially in the field of nursing)... I just feel that stereotyping a potential employee should be put on the shelf in place of ones intellect, skills, and personality (ie. the hiring of an individual who has decided to mark his/her body in the name of artistic expression.

:) DSM categorizes tats and piercings as "self-mutilation". Dude, I spent my formative years with biker-buddies & all sorts of tatoo parlors, I'm well aware of the population, their(our) outlooks and perspectives. As noted, if the motivation in obtaining ink is, "look @ ME!!", attendant with, "you must accept ME!!!", there are some developmental/functional issues that need to be dealt with, probably before offering access to controlled meds and/or persons with limited coping in need of education.

If artistic expression is used as a dominance technique (see above) or a paraphelia it is (as noted) it is a visible warning of developmental issues. Granted, we all have "issues", but some issues interfere with the ability to effectively recognize developmental and psychosocial needs in others. E.g., if everything is cool, there is no "abnormal". In the social context, then, you are describing anarchy- might makes right.

Circumcision is a religious practice(primarily) with some medically beneficial foundation. In context, it is a straw-man argument. If you are a Maori, live in New Zealand, and are an RN, face ink is not indicative of developmental dysfunction. The same work on a white dude in Boise, Idaho, requires a little more evaluation. :cool:

Please re-read my post. I'm familiar with the sub-culture. I'm a healthcare professional. I'm not "judging people", I'm using judgement. Not all people with ink have BPD/narcissism/coping/anxiety/MDD/ADHD/ADD. A significant number of folks with one or more of those disorders have ink- and lots of it (see my previous statement about "discreet"). In sociological context, it is a generalizable statement.

Rob72, ASN, RN · May 25, 2011

Take my advice FWIW. I'm 39, 3 daughters(1 through college, 1 starting), former EMT, blahblahblah. Socially, yes, tatoos are far more acceptable than they were even 10 years ago. I'm not saying don't get inked, I'm not saying, "you're a bad person for getting ink".

As an RN, the majority of the time, you need to meet the needs of others, and to some degree that includes the appearance of a care/comfort provider. This is the discussion a hiring board will have. If one is capable of tuning one's personality to being "Big Bear" to the little old lady; "Crazy Uncle Jimmy" to a 6 year old; peer to the 6 y/o's father, you'll be a perfect fit.

Tats have gained huge acceptance largely because of vets in DS I/II. Bear in mind, these men and women will look at you through a different filter- you may have cool ink, but are you cool enough to be professional, or are you just another overgrown Emo-kidd?

If you Do The Work, most folks will respect you. If you're yelling about how much respek you deserve, as Dr. Phil would say, "Lemme know how that works out for you...";) God bless you guys & keep your wits about you.

heather.f · May 25, 2011

well, again, not a guy - but I have 6 tattoos, 9/16 gauged ears and lots of past healed piercings (3 lip, tongue, 2 eyebrow, 2 trigus, tongue, nose and earlobes)... thing is in how you present yourself. If your art truly is for yourself, and not to make others think you are cool, than covering them shouldnt be an issue - you still know they are there and still will be when you get off work or out of clinicals. I have been a pharmacy technician, a sunday school teacher, have 4 children (young) and been a high school youth advisor... there has never been a problem with any of these jobs... but I don't present as an "in your face and deal with it" sort. Being an individual is one thing, asserting this individuality in a manner that is bound to cause problems (possibly for you) is only going to make it an issue, as opposed to a nonissue.

I am planning on a sleeve too, but bought long sleeves for this already.

:specs:

just my 2 cents -

pcjcusa · May 26, 2011

Interesting thread. I used to have a tattoo on the top of my hand that I had to have removed to work at my hospital. I figured I would have to, so it wasn't a big deal and this was about 5 or 6 years ago. I wanted to work there, they have their rules, I knew tattoos aren't exactly mainstream because I'm not an idiot; it's gone, Amen.

I am currently gently moonlighting as a grad student in psychology and hope to be accepted into a phd track in that field (research, not clinical) soon. From my reading on this topic, as many studies have found an inverse relationship between self-esteem and tattoos (negative correlation...lower self-esteem = more tatoos) as have not (no correlation), but no study yet has found a positive relationship between self-esteem and tatoos (higher self-esteem = more tattoos) when controlling for type and location of ink and all that fun stuff.

The consensus among people involved in the tattoo industry (psychologists, artists, people with tattoos, laser-removal specialists) is that in the mind of a person who is "pre-tattoo", there is something about the appearance of the body part or area about to be tattooed that is dissatisfying, i.e., people believe that having a tattoo there will make that area "better" in some way, or improve their overall presentation in some expressive way beyond what they are able to express as currently equipped. That is not to say that we "don't like" our bodies pre-ink, but we see a tattoo as a way to enhance our appearance in an expressive way similar to coloring one's hair, wearing make-up, getting breast augmentations, or wearing colored contacts. This implies a lack of acceptance with the self, ipso facto, which is very common in society. Tattoos are just more shocking because they aren't mainstream at this point. Who's to say they will or won't be? No way of knowing.

Living in Iowa, and with this new generation of kids and their tattoos (Iowans LOVE their ink!) now I have got to say that it's possibly soon going to be much more rare to find a young person withOUT a tattoo on some body part, seen or unseen. And hey, from what I've read, learned, and experienced, that "naked" person is going to be someone who is satisfied with their appearance, the way they are able to express themselves "as is", and the way their body looks naturally; so take that how you will. I'm afraid many of these kids getting inked don't know what the things they get tattooed on themselves (by artists who obviously don't know) mean on the street level including tears, spider-webs, and lower-back directionals.

My advice is that they're cool, and no one should be judged, but there are psychological reasons that many people recoil at the sight of them and there is definitely empirical research that indicates that an inked person is different from a non-inked person (not better or worse, mind you, just different). Also, in my late 30s I will tell you that fighting the man and claiming your tattoos are anything other than augmentations of appearance and expression is fruitless -- so just stop it. Cover them up if you can if you need to for work, tow the line the man has set-up. Resisting the way the world operates just wastes time. :) I've wasted lots of time with just my first kid on the way now instead of in my 20s like a normal person (who doesn't want to be at college graduation in his 60s).

Hamcarver · May 27, 2011

Personally, the findings of the psychological community are irrelevant, and really quite amusing. I am also in my 30's (sans children) but definitely quite comfortable with my self esteem, and body image. Aren't psychologists the people who are responsible for the development the essay writing style (APA)? A writing format that has changed more often than Lady GaGa's wardrobe. Dr. Phil...An admitted adulterer, counseling families on relationships? I would strongly urge anyone to refrain from taking advice from an afternnon talk show host...That is unless you are an unemployed, avid drug user, living in your parents basement. The "Rock"...Definitely comfortable with his self esteem and body image. Allysa Milano, David Beckham, James Gandolfini, Winston Churchill, Caroline Kennedy, Theodore Roosevelt...all quite attractive (O.K. maybe not Winston) intelligent, and talented individuals...and all tattooed. Mike Tyson- Definitely one brick shy... However, I would venture to guess that it wasn't the facial tattoo that pushed him into the "crazy" category. Don't get me wrong, I understand some of the concerns of those who are put in the position of hiring an individual. If I were presented with a potential employee bearing a swastika on his/her forehead, I may agree that a tattoo may be a distraction...Although, the person may be a Hindu practicing his/her religious rights, and ultimately, I may wind up in court being sued for discrimination?

Hamcarver · May 27, 2011

@Rob72 I understand some of your views, and agree with you on a certain level... However, I feel that sterotyping can be an unproductive and careless pitfall when judging someone less their abilities and intelect.