Any FNP out there that went to a for profit online university out there?

SlyFoxRN, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2013

Thanks everyone, this has been an informative thread. I am trying to decide which school to complete my MSN/FNP. I am in the Univ of North FL area and everyone here seems to be big fans of that school. If I went there, they are priced similarly or higher than some of the online schools. I believe some of their courses are online as well. They do seem to have clinicals set up which would be a plus.
I did my undergrad at a brick and mortar school but I am really thinking of doing my MSN/FNP at an online school. I could always do my terminal degree somewhere else. If I did decide on UNF then I would probably not be able to start until next fall since the app deadline seems to be in March. I really want to start sooner than that so that also makes some of the online schools like Chamberlain look more appealing.

I don't recommend an online program. You tend to lack preparation in lab skills when you attend an online program.

allnurses Guide · Sep 21, 2013

I don't recommend an online program. You tend to lack preparation in lab skills when you attend an online program.

Do you have the experience to make that statement?

And didn't you post a few weeks ago looking for an online program?

SlyFoxRN, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2013

Do you have the experience to make that statement?
And didn't you post a few weeks ago looking for an online program?

Yes, but I've done a ton of research since then and have decided online programs just don't have the lab prep necessary. There isn't enough time spent practicing important skills that need to be taught in person with a professor. I would much prefer to attend an in person program, but if it's not possible I will attend an online program and do extra skills practice outside of my program/clinicals.

Ptrv12 · Sep 21, 2013

[Quote from SlyFoxRN

I don't recommend an online program. You tend to lack preparation in lab skills when you attend an online program.]

While I do somewhat agree that you might get more skills practice being taught in person by a professor in a skills lab, My opinion is that you will get a lot of practice while doing your clinical hours. I am not really sure how they practice skills at an FNP level but if it is like nursing school I don't think working on a mannequin or SIMS stimulation lab makes you more competent in your skills. Yes, you learn the basics and proper procedures on doing things sutures and stuff but I don't think it's comparable to what you learn in clinicals on an actual person. Just like how in nursing school they teach you how to put in an NG tube on a mannequin it is nothing like doing on an actual person. In order to master skills like putting in IV's or Foley catheters or any procedures is by actual practice on a real human being not in a skills lab. No one would ever be great at starting IV by working on a mannequin, you have to gain that experience in clinicals. Again, I do think that you can learn the basics of how to perform the procedure by an instructor and practicing in a skills lab but I think it's unfair to say an online student would lack the skills needed just because they didn't have a skills lab component. Everyone had different learning styles, some are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic learners. My second job is Pediatric Private duty nursing and some skills I never learned in nursing school I had to perform at this job and I learned to master these skills on the job. I also read up and watched videos on performing these skills so that I can have a better understanding on the correct way to do them. Like you would in clinicals, I was taught by a nurse preceptor on the job. I think when it comes down to doing you clinical hours you will learn your skills from clinicals and your preceptor rather than in a lab.

SlyFoxRN, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2013

[Quote from SlyFoxRN
I don't recommend an online program. You tend to lack preparation in lab skills when you attend an online program.]
While I do somewhat agree that you might get more skills practice being taught in person by a professor in a skills lab, My opinion is that you will get a lot of practice while doing your clinical hours. I am not really sure how they practice skills at an FNP level but if it is like nursing school I don't think working on a mannequin or SIMS stimulation lab makes you more competent in your skills. Yes, you learn the basics and proper procedures on doing things sutures and stuff but I don't think it's comparable to what you learn in clinicals on an actual person. Just like how in nursing school they teach you how to put in an NG tube on a mannequin it is nothing like doing on an actual person. In order to master skills like putting in IV's or Foley catheters or any procedures is by actual practice on a real human being not in a skills lab. No one would ever be great at starting IV by working on a mannequin, you have to gain that experience in clinicals. Again, I do think that you can learn the basics of how to perform the procedure by an instructor and practicing in a skills lab but I think it's unfair to say an online student would lack the skills needed just because they didn't have a skills lab component. Everyone had different learning styles, some are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic learners. My second job is Pediatric Private duty nursing and some skills I never learned in nursing school I had to perform at this job and I learned to master these skills on the job. I also read up and watched videos on performing these skills so that I can have a better understanding on the correct way to do them. Like you would in clinicals, I was taught by a nurse preceptor on the job. I think when it comes down to doing you clinical hours you will learn your skills from clinicals and your preceptor rather than in a lab.

NP Skills are more advanced and practice is necessary vs RN. Take suturing for example. In an online program, you may never get to practice in lab. That's an important skill to try out before you go trying to stitch up a real person. In addition, it's not as simple as just pulling the skin together and sewing like a teddy bear - there are so many different techniques based on wound size, shape, location. Suturing alone should be a few weeks practice in a lab before trying on someone...

allnurses Guide · Sep 21, 2013

Again, do you think you have the experience to be making the statements you are making?

I am not a huge fan of online programs, but I can say from precepting several student NPs from online programs, on the whole, they are no less prepared than the dozens I have precepted from b&m programs.

SlyFoxRN, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2013

Again, do you think you have the experience to be making the statements you are making?
I am not a huge fan of online programs, but I can say from precepting several student NPs from online programs, on the whole, they are no less prepared than the dozens I have precepted from b&m programs.

Unfortunately, so many NP programs are moving to the online model, even for LOCAL students, that your statement may speak more to the quality of the B&M programs rather than vice versa.

I do not need to be in an NP program to be "qualified" to make the statements I have made. The bottom line is no medical education should be offered online - ever. Period. One needs reinforcement of skills until they are muscle memory. A future clinician should practice health assessments, exams, procedures, etc OVER AND OVER with a skilled instructor watching to ensure they provide the best care possible to their patients.

No other medical program allows fully online programs that are so rampant in NP programs. PAs do not allow it. MDs and DOs do not allow it. Why has nursing allowed such a horrible practice? "Local preceptors" vary in quality, and being an NP does not suddenly mean you are able to teach. While other professions are becoming more educated, I fear the NP profession is devolving. Poorly prepared online NP graduates preparing more poorly prepared online NP graduates until the public loses all respect for NPs. It's a recipe for disaster and no NP should be advocating for for-profit, online programs where you precept with some random NP from your hometown. If such a thing were to be suggested for MD or PA education, their members would do everything in their power to prevent it from happening and protect their credibility. Why must nursing be the only profession where cheap, easy, online education is actually valued?

If one DOES have to pursue and online NP education (which I recommend only if there are no other options), then PLEASE do yourself a favor and go OUTSIDE your program for extra education. Attend conferences, skill sessions, NP boot camps, etc. Ensure your clinical preceptor has experience precepting other students and do everything to make the best of your education!

Ptrv12 · Sep 21, 2013

Again, you are missing the point slyfoxrn, what I am saying is that while yes you do learn the proper techniques from a lab that does not make you any better at suturing by having multiple days of "training" in a skills lab. Of course, I am aware that the skills for an NP are more advanced than that of an RN, it would be ridiculous of me to think otherwise. But, my point is what makes you think you would be better at suturing a patient than an online student? Just because you practiced in a lab? Everyone is exposed to different things in clinicals and the more exposure you have to things like suturing a patient that is where you are going to get your expertise from. I am not an online student, in fact, the only reason why I have debated whether to go to an online school or campus is because of narrow minded people like yourself. If you have researched as much as you say you have you would see that schools such as San Angelo University and other major universities require you to attend the university once a semester for a skills lab. Do you really think 1 day of practice would make you more advanced and capable if performing a skill? Yes, I think it is important to have a skills component but I do not find it necessary. Everyone gets what they put into a program. Like I have said in other posts, you can have a student from a major university and one from a community college and sometimes the community college student seems more knowledgeable and vise versa. To hear nurses say one nurse is better than other simply because you graduated from this university and that university is ridiculous! And please don't try and compare an Ivy league university to any of the ones I am referring to because of course I think an IVy league education is a lot better. If I were to ask many RN how many questions they had on NCLEX and some responded 130, 110, 80, 90 questions, and I myself passed at 75 questions do you really think that makes me a better nurse? No! It does not. A person becomes a well rounded knowledgeable nurse by the experiences they face at work and how much they apply to their learning. I can not tell you how many things nurses that have been nurses for years do not take the time to learn new skills or about new procedures, and I myself as a novice nurse have taught them the correct protocol and way to do these skills because I take the time to research things and learn. I seek out every opportunity to continue learning and growing as a nurse, and some people do not they just go to work do their job and go home. Even on my days off of work I research things that I was unfamiliar with at work so that next time I can be more knowledgeable. We as nurses can learn from eah other because we are all exposed to different things and instead of trying to put each other down because this person went to that school or this school we should learn from each other. You seem like a type if nurse that would think someone is inferior to you because of where they went to school and that is just simply sad and this type if thinking is why we have so many new grads that feel like they are mistreated because they are looked at as inferior to the seasoned nurses. Does it make your ego feel better to call yourself or think of yourself as a more competent nurse just because you went to a better school? In order to be a great nurse, you must be compassionate, understanding, empathetic, and really enjoy your profession and that patients you care for. You could have gone to the best university and lack those things and I for one would prefer one of these nurses over a nurse with a huge ego. Your type if thinking is what gets a nurse in trouble. No nurse will ever know everything and I bet a nursing student that went to an online university can teach you something and you could learn a few things from them and vice versa. So instead of trying to worry about whether you are better or they are better you should try and help eah other and learn from each other. Everyone passed the same NCLEX exam whether you did it at 80, 100,200, or 75 questions. Just as a person from an online school passes the same boards for FNP school.

SlyFoxRN, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2013

Again, you are missing the point slyfoxrn, what I am saying is that while yes you do learn the proper techniques from a lab that does not make you any better at suturing by having multiple days of "training" in a skills lab. Of course, I am aware that the skills for an NP are more advanced than that of an RN, it would be ridiculous of me to think otherwise. But, my point is what makes you think you would be better at suturing a patient than an online student? Just because you practiced in a lab? Everyone is exposed to different things in clinicals and the more exposure you have to things like suturing a patient that is where you are going to get your expertise from. I am not an online student, in fact, the only reason why I have debated whether to go to an online school or campus is because of narrow minded people like yourself. If you have researched as much as you say you have you would see that schools such as San Angelo University and other major universities require you to attend the university once a semester for a skills lab. Do you really think 1 day of practice would make you more advanced and capable if performing a skill? Yes, I think it is important to have a skills component but I do not find it necessary. Everyone gets what they put into a program. Like I have said in other posts, you can have a student from a major university and one from a community college and sometimes the community college student seems more knowledgeable and vise versa. To hear nurses say one nurse is better than other simply because you graduated from this university and that university is ridiculous! And please don't try and compare an Ivy league university to any of the ones I am referring to because of course I think an IVy league education is a lot better. If I were to ask many RN how many questions they had on NCLEX and some responded 130, 110, 80, 90 questions, and I myself passed at 75 questions do you really think that makes me a better nurse? No! It does not. A person becomes a well rounded knowledgeable nurse by the experiences they face at work and how much they apply to their learning. I can not tell you how many things nurses that have been nurses for years do not take the time to learn new skills or about new procedures, and I myself as a novice nurse have taught them the correct protocol and way to do these skills because I take the time to research things and learn. I seek out every opportunity to continue learning and growing as a nurse, and some people do not they just go to work do their job and go home. Even on my days off of work I research things that I was unfamiliar with at work so that next time I can be more knowledgeable. We as nurses can learn from eah other because we are all exposed to different things and instead of trying to put each other down because this person went to that school or this school we should learn from each other. You seem like a type if nurse that would think someone is inferior to you because of where they went to school and that is just simply sad and this type if thinking is why we have so many new grads that feel like they are mistreated because they are looked at as inferior to the seasoned nurses. Does it make your ego feel better to call yourself or think of yourself as a more competent nurse just because you went to a better school? In order to be a great nurse, you must be compassionate, understanding, empathetic, and really enjoy your profession and that patients you care for. You could have gone to the best university and lack those things and I for one would prefer one of these nurses over a nurse with a huge ego. Your type if thinking is what gets a nurse in trouble. No nurse will ever know everything and I bet a nursing student that went to an online university can teach you something and you could learn a few things from them and vice versa. So instead of trying to worry about whether you are better or they are better you should try and help eah other and learn from each other. Everyone passed the same NCLEX exam whether you did it at 80, 100,200, or 75 questions. Just as a person from an online school passes the same boards for FNP school.

Ptrv12,

My concern with online programs (which I listed right above you but we posted at close to the same time so you may not have had a chance to read it) comes from the fact that a student doing the bare minimum to pass will become an NP with very little training. Many of the better brick and mortar programs have weekly labs for skills, not just once a semester. I truly believe this reinforcement is necessary to perform as well as an NP should. From your last post, it sounds like you do seek many outside opportunities to learn, and you would likely do well in an online program. I do wish online programs did not exist, for our professional credibility, but since they do I believe only certain people should take advantage of them. Those are people that will go to outside skill session to make sure they get the necessary lab time - local conferences, NP refreshers courses and boot camps, etc. I do not believe the didactic part of an NP program is inferior in online vs B&M style (watching a lecture online is no different than watching in person) I simply fear the lack of lab and the lack of qualified, vetted preceptors - people trained to teach students. If someone in an online program makes use of all the outside chances to learn hands on skills and assessment techniques in person, and ensures they have a proper clinical instructor, I believe they can succeed at a level equal or surpassing a B&M student.

To paraphrase, and hopefully we can agree on this point because I do not wish to disparage those who must go to an online program: An online NP student can succeed and become an excellent nurse practitioner. My fear is that online programs make it too easy for someone to become a BAD nurse practitioner. That fact alone is reason enough that they shouldn't exist in my opinion.

heliconiabay · Sep 21, 2013

I can see both sides of the coin on this issue. I think most programs are pretty good but the learning process is highly individual. I went the extra mile in volunteering, working as a cna, then getting a nurse extern, etc. in my BSN program so I will apply the same strategy in my MSN trying to soak up all the knowledge and opportunities that I can, especially in clinical. Some of the students in my BSN program put less effort into their studies and clinicals and did not get as much out of it. I think that can happen with any school.

There are plenty of skills that I am worried about but suturing is definitely not one of them lol. I currently live on and was raised on a ranch. My grandfather was a vet and taught me to suture (not saying people and animals are the same but dang, cows and horses have tough hides-so hoping people will be easier lol) and do vet care on our own farm animals since I was 12. I was originally going to be a vet so I did all the science pre req like physics, org chem, calculus etc. and got A's but then decided to go to nursing school instead due to life circumstances. I don't feel like I will really get any dumber if I decide to go to online school vs brick and mortar. I was just kinda wondering what the employers would think of an online vs brick in mortar. At one point I was considering going to PA school since I already had those sciences done but ultimately decided that nursing would be a smarter move. I prefer the nursing model vs the medical model.

Just an FYI: on you-tube there are some good suturing videos and you can buy pig hides to practice on. I have heard that some people practice on chicken legs. I had to suture a chicken once and it was very easy to pierce through and suture because their skin is naturally more pulled away from the carcass and just attached in certain places.

Jeffers Livestock online, sells a couple different varieties of suture needles if you want to get some to practice with. They are pretty cheap. I haven't really investigated other places since I buy our livestock supplies mainly from them if I can't find it locally.

Ptrv12 · Sep 22, 2013

Slyfox RN,

I do agree with you that an online NP student can succeed and be an excellent NP but still have to disagree that online programs make it easy for someone to become a bad NP. I don't think it's the school that makes them a bad NP but the person chooses to become a bad one. You see this from regular nurses as well. Someone could have gone to the best nursing school but lack the willingness to continue to grow and learn as a nurse that they will miss critical things that could help save a life. They can miss crucial information that should have been reported to the doctor simply because of their lack of effort and willingness to do the bare minimum at work. You also see this with MD's. Just last week, I had a patient that showed a HR of 174, 14 beat run with a wide QRS, symptomatic with SOB and Chest pain, and when I reported it to him, he just walked off and said okay. I had to go above him to the shift supervisor to call a code in order to get an EKG, cardiac enzymes, and so forth. He might not have found it pertinent to get these test but I would rather be safe than sorry. I guess my point is, in any profession, regardless of where you went to school, what really matters is your willingness to go above and beyond your duties and continue to grow and learn. Another time when I had to take my pediatric home health patient to the ER due to her mic-key button having blood in her residual and tarry stools, the resident that came in the room had no idea what a G-button (mic-key button) was and didn't know what it was and he graduated medical school. My point with that example is that you can not learn everything in school and even though you do learn a lot I feel you learn with your experiences. I could have judged him and thought he was dumb or he went to a bad medical school but I didn't because I am fully aware that no one can retain all the information they are taught at school and if he had never been exposed to a mic-key button, how would he have known what it was. What I am saying again is that what make you a great NP is the amount of time you apply yourself and dedicate in your learning. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about the fact that you think online schools are the problem, it is not the schools in my opinion but the person itself. They give you the materials to learn and you do with them what you choose to do. I am glad to see that if you do decide to go to an online university you will seek out every opportunity to learn and practice skills. That is going above and beyond in your learning experiences. If you feel this way you would do just fine in an online program and you would be the type of person to prove that you can be as equally or more prepared as a B&M FNP student, but I guess based on how you feel about online programs that will not happen. But anyway best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do.

Ptrv12 · Sep 22, 2013

Heliconiabay, great post! Very informative! I completely agree with you that in clinically there are some students that put in more effort than others and that was the point I was trying to get across, that you get what you put in to your education.