After OSCE...is it back to school for 3-4 yrs??

sdg13 · Apr 8, 2015

Hi! I'm in a similar situation, although I'm an LPN in the US. I had a one year program for practical nursing back in 2002 and 12 years of working experience. I was told that I could not sit for the RPN exam in Ontario because my program length was inadequate and I have the same "incompetencies" as you basically.. ethics and personal responsibility. Nevermind that I scored 100% on the CNO's jurisprudence exam. I'm pretty angry. I was told I'd have to basically start practical nursing school from the beginning. I have also been told by some nurses that I could try to get a job as a PSW, however, all the jobs I've seen require a PSW certificate and you need to do the 25 week program for that, even if you have international education that surpasses it. Both of those options are working backwards for me. I've applied to Queens university to just go for my BSN, hoping for acceptance. What country are you from? Do you have a 4-year degree or the 2-year associate degree like they offer in the US? Have you tried applying for an RPN license? I can totally empathise with you on this. After being a nurse for 12 years it has become part of my identity. It's the only career I've ever known. Then, to be told by Ontario that I'm nothing here.. it's so devastating. I have no other skills. I feel like I'll be lucky to get a job in retail or fast food at this point. Such a waste of good skills! I could do a med pass in my sleep.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Apr 8, 2015

Those two little competency gaps -ethics and self-regulation - aren't little ones at all, in fact they're HUGE. Every single facet of nursing work is impacted by them and all nurses registered in Canada are held to the same standard. Universities have responsibilities to the Colleges of Nursing to prepare candidates for registration to meet that standard. They're under no obligation to accept anyone. I would expect that York's decision to accept mainly those IENs who have already made some effort toward improving their basic competencies to Canadian educational levels has evolved as they've become more experienced with bridging gaps between a vast number of countries' IEN education and ours. The number of IENs seeking registration in Canada has been increasing dramatically year after year and there seems to be no end in sight. When supply (seats in a specific program) is far smaller than demand (people wanting to take the program), the supplier has to make difficult choices to determine which demanders have access to their supply. The fact that you've been a registered nurse in another country doesn't automatically qualify you for anything. Pause and consider for a moment what would happen if I, with my 20 years of Canadian nursing practice, wanted to become a registered nurse in your country of origin. What hurdles would I face? My guess is they'd be no less arduous for me.

Your only other post here is from May 2013, wherein you revealed you'd been notified about the OSCE test date but due to a visa problem you wouldn't be able to attend at that time. Have you been doing anything constructive in this direction in the meantime?

akama · Apr 8, 2015

Thank you for your reply.

I know its a huge competencies but i dont think its that huge to ask IENs to go back to school for 3-4 years. i would rather say its unfair...i acknowledge the fact that getting registration in another country is tough but its not tough like it is here. i was initially registered in India and i managed to register successfully in UK as a registered nurse. I have to study there for about 6 months to bridge the gap and after a final test, i was able to apply for my registration in Uk within 6-7 months.

given that time period, i believe any IEN will be willing to pursue their nursing profession in any foreign country. if i have known that the fate of my Nursing registration is going back to school for 3-4 years in canada, i would think twice to make the leap.

anyways what is done is done, i m not fussing about it but to connect and get advice from all of my fellow nursing sisters around the world to shed some light in pursuing my Rn dream in toronto.

I was given the eligibility of RPN and as such passed the RPN test and waiting the licence.

But i really want to get back to RN coz i am a critical care nurse and to become one in this country, u have to be a rn

thanks

dishes, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2015

akama, IENs have experienced difficulty becoming registered in Ontario for the past ten years, the problems have been described in nursing journals, the Toronto Star electronic newspaper, the Ontario Office of Fairness Commission, they have been researched by UoT nursing PHD candidate Oluwabukola Oladunni Salami and McMaster nursing professor Andrea Baumann. They have also been widely discussed in this forum. There is an article in the Toronto Star that describes an IEN with an experience similar to yours, by Nicholas Keung entitled 'Immigrant Nurses Face New Hurdles' .

sdg, Ontario healthcare employers do not value private school PSW education, they prefer education from public community colleges. For a better understanding of the negative reputation of private school PSW education, suggest you search of the Toronto Star article on private school personal support worker by Diana Ziomislic, entitled 'College Sold Fake Diplomas'

sdg13 · Apr 20, 2015

sdg, Ontario healthcare employers do not value private school PSW education, they prefer education from public community colleges. For a better understanding of the negative reputation of private school PSW education, suggest you search of the Toronto Star article on private school personal support worker by Diana Ziomislic, entitled 'College Sold Fake Diplomas'

Private school? Huh? The only college I was interested in was Queen's or St. Lawrence, where I would finish my bachelor's degree. I was just hoping in the meantime I could get a job working as a PSW with my experience and international education as a practical nurse or even a medical receptionist maybe. Going to college to be a PSW or even an RPN would be a step backwards for me at this point.

Christy1 · Mar 25, 2017

Haha CNO just wants to eat your money that it.They dont want any international nurses as an RN here.

dayandnight · Mar 25, 2017

Maybe look at other provinces. Refresher course in BC are 1 year MAX, and other provinces are pretty similar to Ontario in that their refresher courses are approximately 1.5 years. Granted you need to take another assessment test such as SEC or NCAS to do this in other provinces. Maybe ask CNO if they accept refresher courses outside of the province? BC accepts refresher courses taken in Newfoundland and Saskachewan.

Ontario does make it hard but even if you were RN in another country, you really need to start from scratch in Canada, set aside your pride and accept what it takes to be a nurse here. A lot of nurse immigrants in Canada that I have seen have bittersweet moments during the licensing process but end up being happy after they start working because it's really what they wanted to do in the end.

dishes, BSN, RN · Mar 25, 2017

Haha CNO just wants to eat your money that it.They dont want any international nurses as an RN here.

I can see how the thousands of IENs who have faced difficulties with the credentialing process and have been de-skilled would form the opinion that the regulatory bodies make it difficult for IENS in order to profit financially and that Canadians do not want IENs working here. However both beliefs are false, the CNO does not profit financially and the NNAS and IENCAP assessment services are subsidized through public money, they are not profit making services. Many Canadian educated nurses enjoy working with IENs and recognize when IENs are unable to resume their nursing careers after they migrate to Canada, it's a loss to the Canadian workforce. There is no upside to waste in human capital.

RN_Pro · Mar 28, 2017

I can see how the thousands of IENs who have faced difficulties with the credentialing process and have been de-skilled would form the opinion that the regulatory bodies make it difficult for IENS in order to profit financially and that Canadians do not want IENs working here. However both beliefs are false, the CNO does not profit financially and the NNAS and IENCAP assessment services are subsidized through public money, they are not profit making services. Many Canadian educated nurses enjoy working with IENs and recognize when IENs are unable to resume their nursing careers after they migrate to Canada, it's a loss to the Canadian workforce. There is no upside to waste in human capital.

I agree, most Canadians value a diverse health care workforce and there is definitely nothing to be gained from wasting human capital. To be fair though, it is not just IENs 'forming an opinion' of this process. There are real circumstances which lead us to these conclusions. CGFNS and Touchstone Institute are profit-driven corporations and applicants are customers. CGFNS and Touchstone profit from having the exclusive contracts to conduct the assessments. The subsidization of the assessments by government does not take away from their profit-driven structure, it just means that public dollars are being used to lower the cost to the applicant--CGFNS and Touchstone are still earning profits, just with some government dollars. In some ways, this is even more troublesome because despite the known problems with the assessments and the way the corporations choose to handle customer care, government dollars continue to go towards these companies, awarding them a monopoly, with little accountability in return. Agreed that CNO itself does not profit but the point about profit is relevant I believe. There are a lot of people who were/are paid big bucks to create and run the NNAS and IENCAP assessments and every step of the process is political. Immigration, credentialing and education of international students is big business. One might say this particular process fits with a larger 'immigration industrial complex'.

dishes, BSN, RN · Apr 2, 2017

Touchstone and NNAS are not even self sustaining at this point, both services would not be in existence if not for the millions of dollars of contributions from the federal and provincial governments. Touchstone initially charged $200.00 for IENCAP, then in 2015 the fee was increased to $400.00 (fair registration practice report 2015). Then in April 2017 the fee was increased to $500.00. The fee will continue to increase as Touchstone works towards the process of becoming self-sufficient. It will take several years to become self sufficient and the fee may end up being similar to the Alberta's Touchstone assessment, the ARNAP which is $1,900.00.

NNAS will run out of their start up contribution of $3,415,555.00 (NNAS annual report 2015) soon and will likely start increasing their assessment fees as well. Most likely it will follow the same pattern as Touchstone and make incremental increases over time.

I think if current IEN applicants read all of the past complaints (on AN and in research articles) that IENS expressed when the regulatory bodies conducted there own competency assessments, they would realize why the regulatory bodies and government changed to having third party vendors provide the assessment services.

The problem with the IEN assessments is not that third party vendors are conducting them, the problem is that the assessments are based on the Canadian entry-to-practice competencies. The competencies are highly valued by Canadian regulatory bodies, similar to the way sacred texts are valued by religious leaders (it's a bit of an exaggeration but it gives an idea of the degree of value that is held).

Yao-kae · Oct 13, 2017

Hi there everyone. There is a new program that caters certain GAPS that you have failed in your OSCE, VISIT rncompetencies.ca

* Click Stream 1 for those who have taken and failed OSCE and click Stream 2 for those who wants to take OSCE.

* In the site you will see which GAPS the program caters. If you get lucky and have your failed areas or gaps on their LISTS then you don't need to take the 2 year program that York University offers because this program will cover it all. Just apply (they have an application form in their site) and you may able to get into the Competency-Based Program for IEN. :)

This is a really,really good news :) Hope it helps :) Have a wonderful day