RRNA or SRNA for title, What is your opinion? - page 4

I have seen RRNA and SRNA quite often here and just wondered what you all thought of the 2 titles. I like RRNA myself. They way they explained it to us at TCU is that it can ease some pt anxiety... Read More

  1. by   heartICU
    Quote from naggytabby
    I have to agree. I think some ethical boundaries are being crossed when a student is not clearly defined as one. and, by the way, "student" nurse midwives do tons of hours and on call. so should I be a "resident nurse midwife"??? this is not about who does or does not have a monolpoly on a descriptive title, but if I was in the hospital and someone did not clearly identify they were a student I would complain. individuals have the right to choose whther they are attended to by a student or not. you are still a student.
    But on that same note, I do not hear residents introducing themselves as "Dr. John Smith, resident physician." They stop at Dr. Smith. Is it right for them to not include "resident" in their introduction?
  2. by   aRNnAR
    I'm a TX Wesleyan RRNA. At my cliinical site, I have had some of the MDA's introduce me as a Resident Nurse Anesthetist or Nurse Anesthesia Resident, as well as Nurse Anesthesia student, but usually it's this is __________, he's part of the anesthesia team. It doesn't seem to be a problem with the MDAs where I practice. That being said, It doesn't matter to me...I'll answer to 'hey you'. ASU also uses my clinical site...they refer to their ppl as SRNAs, but since our program has been using the site longer, everyone is referred to as RRNA.
  3. by   EmeraldNYL
    Quote from bryanboling5
    A friend of mine was considering going to DO school and my parents told him that when THEY were young, DOs were considered (even by MDs, much less the general public) to be less qualified and were put in the same class with Chiropractors. So, how is it now that they are treated as equals with MDs but APNs are still lacking? Is DO school "equivelant" to MD school? (I would assume since that seems to be the big beef in the MD vs APN debate) If so, why have different schools. Seems to me, and this is my limited understanding of the whole thing, someone jump in if I'm wrong, that DOs are similar to APNs in that they train to do "the same" things as MDs, but in a different way and with a different background.
    This is such a great discussion although it is something that we probably won't acheive a consensus on!

    Just to clarify, DOs complete 4 years of medical school and then a residency, just as MDs do. Although I went to a big pre-med school for my undergrad and applying to DO school was still kinda looked down upon-- usually the people that applied to DO school were the ones with lower GPAs and MCAT scores, but they were a lot more personable. People kinda looked at applying to DO school as a last resort if they couldn't get into MD school-- not to say that they don't make great doctors, but the focus in DO school seems to be more primary care.
  4. by   TexasCCRN
    Quote from EmeraldNYL
    This is such a great discussion although it is something that we probably won't acheive a consensus on!

    Just to clarify, DOs complete 4 years of medical school and then a residency, just as MDs do. Although I went to a big pre-med school for my undergrad and applying to DO school was still kinda looked down upon-- usually the people that applied to DO school were the ones with lower GPAs and MCAT scores, but they were a lot more personable. People kinda looked at applying to DO school as a last resort if they couldn't get into MD school-- not to say that they don't make great doctors, but the focus in DO school seems to be more primary care.
    I agree that DO's are more looked down upon because it is easier to get into school and you are right, some do it as a back up when they don't get into medical school. They do function the same as MD's clinically. I believe that it is harder for them to get fellowships when competing with MD students though. From my own personal opinion I have dealt with both DO's and MD's and for the most part (and there are exceptions) I have not been overly impressed with DO's. You are right though that it prob really doesn't matter in primary care. NP, DO, MD all function the same way. If things get too complicated they will all refer to a specialist.
  5. by   An Yogi
    I've worked with both MD and DO cardiologists, and many surgeon specialties including cardiovascular, OB/gyn, ENT, orthopedic, plastic, etc. Don't see a big difference between MD vs DO in skill or expertise. Good or bad is, IMO, lack of skills/education/training of the individual, not necessarily the program. The only tangible difference I've personally observed is the DO OB docs tend to spend more time in the labor room with the patient especially close to delivery. The MDs tend to sit out at the desk and chat with the nurses while the RN coaches the patient, calls the MD doc in 'to catch'. Again, a generalization based on personal observation at one facility.

    DOs learn a more holistic approach in diagnosis and treatment of their patients. However, I don't see a vast difference comparing the two disciplines. The above example in OB is the only difference I've personally observed.

    An Yogi
  6. by   anesthres
    Quote from athomas91
    i believe it is also misleading for patients to assume that a "resident" has more experience than a "student" nurse anesthetist... but it happens. and you are absolutely WRONG - when you say i am a nurse anesthesia student - they hear nurse and student...bypassing the anesthesia part...it is akin to equating a resident w/ a premed student - and insulting at that. by way of explaination and show of intelligent confidence it is usually not a problem - however there must be some way for nurse anesthesisa students to get their "credit" as well. the same way a 3rd yr resident would like to be distinguished from a 1st yr.
    Athomas, I disagree. It is not misleading for a patient to assume a resident has more experience than a nurse anesthetist student ... it may be wrong, but 'misleading' implies a deception by definition. When someone tries to disguise their status as a student, that's a deception, that's misleading.

    And I want to make sure I am correct in what you are trying to say. Because patients, when they hear 'nurse anesthetist student' only hear 'nurse' and 'student', you should be allowed to disguise your status as a student in order to get "credit" for your experience? Furthermore, I don't understand how you think it's insulting that they only hear 'nurse' and 'student'. I don't think they're trying to actively reduce your status, they're nervous about being put to sleep and cut into. If they think you're a 'nursing student' then take the 15 seconds required to tell them you long ago graduated from nursing school, have X number of years experience in ICU nursing and now are a graduate level nurse anesthetist student in X year of clinical training - it didn't even take me 15 seconds to type it.

    Quote from TraumaNurse
    I would also like to add that medical residents are still "students" too.
    I know, we're all students of anesthesiology, from the med student on their anesthesia rotation to the department chair. When I open up my copy of Barash and read "To All Students of Anesthesiology", I don't think it's just referring to nurse anesthetist students and I imagine, neither does anyone else.

    Quote from TraumaNurse
    I have worked with plenty of anesthesia and surgical residents over the years as they learn to place PA caths and A-lines in the ICU. Well, now it is me that is learning to place PA caths and A-lines ect. I am a student but I could just as easily be called a resident. I spend a lot of time sleeping in the hospital and getting calls in the middle of the night to do cases, intubate on the floors, or place an epidural cath in OB. How is my training (other than number of hours) any different than that of a medical resident? It isn't!
    You could just as easily be called an attending, or an astronaut for that matter. It doesn't make it true. But it's just as easy. And do we really want to make this a discussion of the difference in training an anesthesiologist vs. a CRNA? You're wrong, our training is different. I don't even know why you would say something like that.

    Finally, thanks for the linguistic lesson Deepz. I disagree. I think by definition, dictionary definitions are somewhat proscriptive. Yes, they are descriptive, they describe what words mean, and therefore LIMIT what those words can be used to describe. You can't call an 'orange' an 'apple' because that's not what an 'apple' is.

    I eagerly await your replies.
  7. by   stklgs
    RNAI is used in my program. By the way anesthres, you may not be able to call an "apple" a "orange" but by definition they are fruit..
  8. by   jwk
    Quote from stklgs
    RNAI is used in my program. By the way anesthres, you may not be able to call an "apple" a "orange" but by definition they are fruit..
    RNAI???
  9. by   heartICU
    Quote from jwk
    RNAI???
    I think that means Registered Nurse Anesthesia Intern. Correct me if I am wrong...
  10. by   fence
    I was actually going to stay away from this post but decided to say my part. I really don't think it means squat what title we use while we are in shcool. Whatever one we use (SRNA, RRNA, RNAI) as long as we show up to clinicals prepared and ready to learn. I just hope at the end of my program I am able to be called CRNA.

    P.S. I don't think this thread needs to become another CRNA VS DOC thread. That is very very old hat.
  11. by   TexasCCRN
    Quote from fence
    I was actually going to stay away from this post but decided to say my part. I really don't think it means squat what title we use while we are in shcool. Whatever one we use (SRNA, RRNA, RNAI) as long as we show up to clinicals prepared and ready to learn. I just hope at the end of my program I am able to be called CRNA.

    P.S. I don't think this thread needs to become another CRNA VS DOC thread. That is very very old hat.
    Right on!
  12. by   TCU RRNA
    Quote from anesthres
    Athomas, I disagree. It is not misleading for a patient to assume a resident has more experience than a nurse anesthetist student ... it may be wrong, but 'misleading' implies a deception by definition. When someone tries to disguise their status as a student, that's a deception, that's misleading.

    And I want to make sure I am correct in what you are trying to say. Because patients, when they hear 'nurse anesthetist student' only hear 'nurse' and 'student', you should be allowed to disguise your status as a student in order to get "credit" for your experience? Furthermore, I don't understand how you think it's insulting that they only hear 'nurse' and 'student'. I don't think they're trying to actively reduce your status, they're nervous about being put to sleep and cut into. If they think you're a 'nursing student' then take the 15 seconds required to tell them you long ago graduated from nursing school, have X number of years experience in ICU nursing and now are a graduate level nurse anesthetist student in X year of clinical training - it didn't even take me 15 seconds to type it.



    I know, we're all students of anesthesiology, from the med student on their anesthesia rotation to the department chair. When I open up my copy of Barash and read "To All Students of Anesthesiology", I don't think it's just referring to nurse anesthetist students and I imagine, neither does anyone else.



    You could just as easily be called an attending, or an astronaut for that matter. It doesn't make it true. But it's just as easy. And do we really want to make this a discussion of the difference in training an anesthesiologist vs. a CRNA? You're wrong, our training is different. I don't even know why you would say something like that.

    Finally, thanks for the linguistic lesson Deepz. I disagree. I think by definition, dictionary definitions are somewhat proscriptive. Yes, they are descriptive, they describe what words mean, and therefore LIMIT what those words can be used to describe. You can't call an 'orange' an 'apple' because that's not what an 'apple' is.

    I eagerly await your replies.

    Really this post is gaining momentum..... to NOWHERE! It is not like any of us have a choice (other than choosing the program that we attend). The program director and staff for each individual program decide what the students will be called during their clinical rotation. If you like it fine and if you don't like it fine, because it is already decided for us. I think that the AANA or COA could step in and make a suggestion or ruling, but there are much larger issues lurking on the horizon. So more power to all CRNA students, residents, interns, apprentices(?), or whatever else you may be called......the main thing is that we are (hopefully) called to deliver an excellent standard of care to ALL of our patients in a kind, compassionate, skillful and knowledgabe manner
  13. by   Kiwi
    anesres, welcome to our forum. it is important to hear the perspectives of residents, mda's, aa's, etc.

    Quote from anesthres
    the term resident has a defined meaning, and most people who have seen medical drama on tv are aware of that definition.
    tv drama? hollywood's depiction of a hospital environment is a poor argument for what you are trying to point out. lets take a fairly new tv drama (grey's anatomy) and i will show you how misleading tv drama is in the words of a well-written article from www.nursingadvocacy.org

    "given the media's proven influence on the public, this widely seen premiere's regressive attack on nursing will likely do its part to exacerbate the nursing crisis that is taking lives worldwide..."

    "grey's anatomy" is built around intern meredith grey (ellen pompeo), the daughter of a famous surgeon, and four fellow interns starting a long, grueling residency. drill sergeant-like attendings and one vicious senior resident ("the nazi") will train them through calculated abuse. most of the interns, we are gravely informed, will not complete this sacred quest..."

    "here are the major problems we see in the show's premiere, "a hard day's night." the episode goes out of its way to endorse the surgeons' contemptuous views of nurses, and to reinforce a vision of nurses as unattractive, marginally skilled subordinates. though nurses do occasionally appear, and even make a few care-related comments at the margins, the show is really a series of intense interactions among its nine physician characters. no nurse is ever named. only surgeons play significant roles in care discussions, and only their actions matter in patient care. the nurses never interact with patients, and thus they provide no patient support...the show has a patient recall a prior hospital visit, after the patient had twisted her ankle doing rhythmic gymnastics: "i didn't get stuck with someone this clueless, and that was, like, a nurse."

    "...but the episode's masterpiece of physician contempt is an interaction involving meredith, fellow intern alex karev, an unseen post-op patient, and an older, far less attractive nurse. alex has diagnosed this patient's fever and shortness of breath as pneumonia, and he tells the nurse to start antibiotics. the nurse bleats: "are you sure that's the right diagnosis?" alex brings out the big guns: "well, i don't know, i'm only an intern. here's an idea, why don't you go spend four years in med. school and let me know if it's the right diagnosis. she's short of breath, she's got a fever, she's post-op. start the antibiotics." alex approaches meredith, who has overheard all this, and says: "god, i hate nurses." meredith observes that the patient may not have pneumonia, noting that she could be "splinting" or "have a pe." alex replies: "like i said, i hate nurses." meredith is incensed: "what did you just say? did you just call me a nurse?" alex: "well, if the white cap fits." meredith stalks off. alex tells another intern meredith is "hot." later, alex responds to a page from this same nurse, who tells him that "4b's still short of breath." alex sighs: "look, give the antibiotics time to work." but the nurse actually persists: "the antibiotics should have worked by now." alex starts to lose it: "she's old, she's freakin' ancient. she's lucky she's still breathing... don't page me again."

    tv dramas like this are rampant and misleading. i hope they don't influence people's opinion on nurses or docs. the days when the doctor was the auric presence, commanding respect and subservience from all have changed. that golden age of medicine is over. we are now interdisciplinary teams that work for the patient.

    Quote from anesthres
    if they...look (resident) up in the dictionary they're going to find something like this -
    resident - a physician receiving specialized clinical training in a hospital, usually after completing an internship., the american heritage dictionary of the english language, fourth edition, copyright 2000 by houghton mifflin company.
    the term "resident" has not been trademarked by the ama (correct me if i'm wrong). words themselves are not static, but evolving. take the word "gay".

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