MS versus DNP - page 2

So, just to give a background on what I know (or what I think I know); here it goes... Some CRNA programs I have been looking at are programs where the CRNA student gets a Master's degree when... Read More

  1. Visit  loveanesthesia profile page
    1
    My program was 73 hours, and none of it was 'fluff'. It was also 30 months long-24 months of clinical experience. Remember when you graduate and get your first job as a CRNA, the oreintation period is about 4 hours total-at least in my area of the country. You are expected to function fully from the first day, and a lot of CRNA positions are moving to non-medically directed. You need to look for a program that will prepare you well. I never cared for a patient without a preceptor for 3 months when I first started as an RN in the ICU, I was on my own as a CRNA by the first afternoon.

    All nurse anesthesia programs will only admit students to DNP/DNAP programs beginning January 1, 2022-to graduate in 2025 or later. This is an accreditation standard. NPs have no actual requirement, only a recomendation.

    Grandfathering refers to licensure. As mentioned above, there are CRNAs with no degree who are currently practicing. They have been grandfathered in some states, but many others don't have a degree requirement for licensure but the state requires certification. Recertification has no degree requirement, but currently to first become certified you must graduate with a master's degree. Some states will only license a new CRNA to the state if they have a master's degree-IL is one that comes to mind. As a service to their members, the AANA has given advanced notice for most of the state changes. They announce to the membership that if you want a new license in IL; don't have a current IL license and don't have a master's degree, then you need to get it done prior to the deadline.


    The most important thing is to get the best education possible, regardless of the degree earned.
    wtbcrna likes this.
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  3. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    0
    Quote from IndiCRNA
    I think many will be DNAP and not DNP as I mentioned in my previous post.
    I think the majority of NA schools are through nursing schools, so most will be offering DNP degrees. Although, programs like TWU that are extremely large tend skew the total numbers quite a bit.
  4. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    1
    Quote from IndiCRNA
    Wow! 82 credit hours? My program was 64 credits and could have easily been 45-60. Yours must have been packed full of even more fluff than is standard. I would MUCH rather seen CRNA programs move in the direction of 24 month program and cut out much of the fluff. I realize it's going in the other direction but lets be honest about why. It is all about limiting access to the profession.
    IMO SRNAs need more time to assimilate what they have learned. I went to the Uniformed Services Univ, so in typical military fashion it was cram as much possible into your brain in a short amount of time as possible. USUHS has extended their program to 36 months, and is now offering a DNP. They extended both the clinical and didactic time though. IMO I don't think 24 months is enough time to cover all the required material and graduate CRNAs that can perform independently on graduation, which I think should be the goal of every NA program.
    loveanesthesia likes this.
  5. Visit  IndiCRNA profile page
    0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    IMO SRNAs need more time to assimilate what they have learned. I went to the Uniformed Services Univ, so in typical military fashion it was cram as much possible into your brain in a short amount of time as possible. USUHS has extended their program to 36 months, and is now offering a DNP. They extended both the clinical and didactic time though. IMO I don't think 24 months is enough time to cover all the required material and graduate CRNAs that can perform independently on graduation, which I think should be the goal of every NA program.
    When you say "offering a DNP" does that mean it's an option? The one DNP CRNA program I am familiar with (University of Minnesota) didn't add any clinical or clinicaly related classes when it changed to a 36 month DNP. The students actually do the DNP portion first then go into the exact same 24 month anesthesia program they always have.
    I respectfully disagree about a longer program being needed to train safe and competent CRNAs. My program had plenty of non clincal fluff that could have been cut out to provide more clinical time (though I don't think more was needed). For example the professional writing class, or the 9 credits we wasted writing and defending a paper (in my case) about medical errors. My program was 27 months and I practice completly independently (no other ansethesia provider in the hospital).
  6. Visit  IndiCRNA profile page
    0
    My program was 73 hours, and none of it was 'fluff'. It was also 30 months long-24 months of clinical experience.

    Mine was 27 months and contained plenty of make work fluff.

    Remember when you graduate and get your first job as a CRNA, the oreintation period is about 4 hours total-at least in my area of the country. You are expected to function fully from the first day, and a lot of CRNA positions are moving to non-medically directed. You need to look for a program that will prepare you well. I never cared for a patient without a preceptor for 3 months when I first started as an RN in the ICU, I was on my own as a CRNA by the first afternoon.
    Well I got 4 days and then was on my own with no other anesthesia provider in the hospital or available on call. No problem at all. I was well prepared by my program. It helped that I had the oppertunity to do quite a bit of rural clinical. I belong to an all CRNA group and we are not medically directed and I have never been medically directed since I was a student

    All nurse anesthesia programs will only admit students to DNP/DNAP programs beginning January 1, 2022-to graduate in 2025 or later. This is an accreditation standard. NPs have no actual requirement, only a recomendation.
    Yep.

    Grandfathering refers to licensure. As mentioned above, there are CRNAs with no degree who are currently practicing. They have been grandfathered in some states, but many others don't have a degree requirement for licensure but the state requires certification. Recertification has no degree requirement, but currently to first become certified you must graduate with a master's degree.
    Yep the senior partner in our group doesn't have a degree in anything, not even an associates degree. He went to a hospital dipiloma RN program and then an 18 month CRNA certificate program at a Chatholic hospital in IL. He is well into his 60's, has worked is a huge variety of enviroments, and is THE master of anestesia.

    The most important thing is to get the best education possible, regardless of the degree earned.
    I agree. What I am dismayed by is the make work fluff being added to anesthesia programs to make them doctorate degree.
  7. Visit  IndiCRNA profile page
    0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    I think the majority of NA schools are through nursing schools, so most will be offering DNP degrees. Although, programs like TWU that are extremely large tend skew the total numbers quite a bit.
    I think only a minority of CRNA school are through nursing schools. Last time I looked was before I went to school but if I remeber right only about 30% were based out of schools of nursing. There are 5 programs in my area four in MN and one in WI and only one of them is based in a school of nursing. I wonder what degree the programs that grant neither the MSN or MNAP will end up with. For example the program here in Wisconsin grants a masters of biology. I also wonder about all the program based in schools that currently don't offer any doctorate degrees.
  8. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    0
    Quote from IndiCRNA
    When you say "offering a DNP" does that mean it's an option? The one DNP CRNA program I am familiar with (University of Minnesota) didn't add any clinical or clinicaly related classes when it changed to a 36 month DNP. The students actually do the DNP portion first then go into the exact same 24 month anesthesia program they always have. I respectfully disagree about a longer program being needed to train safe and competent CRNAs. My program had plenty of non clincal fluff that could have been cut out to provide more clinical time (though I don't think more was needed). For example the professional writing class, or the 9 credits we wasted writing and defending a paper (in my case) about medical errors. My program was 27 months and I practice completly independently (no other ansethesia provider in the hospital).
    lol... The DNP is like everything else in the military you are told what to do and the type of degree you need to get. We know that individual NA schools are highly variable. There are a lot of programs that do not prepare their students for independent practice. One of premises behind DNP is to make APNs consumers of research. Right now as a group medical professionals do a poor job of incorporating research into practice. It takes approximately 17years for research to make into practice. We can see examples of this in anesthesia (phenylenephrine in ob, the myth of compound a, low dose droperidol increasing qt intervals greater than other drugs etc.) I disagree with core curriculum of the DNP. That is why I am doing a DNAP, but I agree with the fundamental ideas behind getting clinical doctorate for APNs.
  9. Visit  missnurse01 profile page
    0
    Where I am going to be starting school it looks like they will offer the DNAP if you want to continue on in the program. However I am concerned as I have been reading a lot of dialog about the degree not having much clinical content, either in lecture or hands on content. Reading the brochure it states:

    "The DNAP emphasizes knowledge development beyond that of entry-level nurse anesthesia programs by including coursework in patient safety and human factors, quality assessment and improvement, health care systems and organizations, leadership, evidence-based research, statistics, and adult education."

    this is why I was wondering what people doing the phd are getting their degree in. I am not sure that the DNAP is right for me, and it seems that I will have to do doctorate at some point.
  10. Visit  IndiCRNA profile page
    0
    Quote from missnurse01
    this is why I was wondering what people doing the phd are getting their degree in. I am not sure that the DNAP is right for me, and it seems that I will have to do doctorate at some point.
    There is no reason you would have to get a doctorate at any point unless your goal is to teach at a university. For practicing CRNAs the masters will be all thats needed.
    I don't plan on getting a doctorate and if I did it sure as heck would not be a DNAP or DNP.
  11. Visit  missnurse01 profile page
    0
    I was worried about the moving between states and being able to be relicensed in the future as a crna. We tend to move around a lot and would hate to have a requirement of suddenly needing a doctorate to work in a different state. I know nothing is set now...

    I also feel that a phd and not dnap would be more advantageous
  12. Visit  B00P profile page
    0
    What's the difference between DNAP and DNP?
  13. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    0
    Quote from SUNFL0WER
    What's the difference between DNAP and DNP?
    The DNP curriculum was set up by the AACN, and is through a school of nursing. A DNAP is a CRNA specific clinical doctorate that is approved through the nurse anesthetists council of accreditation. The DNAP has more latitude in the type of program that can be set up. The DNAP program that I chose had an additional 12 semester hours in advanced/applied science along with the option to specialize in nurse anesthesia education/administration. The DNAP came about because many nurse anesthesia schools are not in schools of nursing and cannot offer an MSN/DNP degree.
    Last edit by wtbcrna on Jan 5, '13
  14. Visit  B00P profile page
    0
    So if I did not wish to teach, would a DNP be sufficient? I feel a DNAP sounds like it is more specific to a nurse anesthetist, but if a DNP would get me to the same place as a DNAP depending on my school of choice, it doesn't really matter?

    That last run on sentence is confusing and probably doesn't make sense. It's just all of these different degrees that virtually give you the same thing is confusing me. I don't want to make a mistake of doing something I don't want to by not knowing what it means.

    I keep trying to relate it to the RN thing. I wanted to be in a 4-year BSN program because it would give me everything at one time without having to go back to school or have wide gaps between applying elsewhere, as opposed to getting an ADN or a traditional 2-year BSN (pre-requisties done before applying). Now, I'm just trying to figure what would be the best route to take for a CRNA with the same motive; get it all done at one time in one place.

    If that makes any sense, please help me! If it doesn't, I'll try to explain what is confusing.

    Thank you so much!


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