BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it. - page 10

by MunoRN

25,101 Views | 240 Comments

While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative. About 3 years ago I sat... Read More


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    Again, I don't believe that the evidence supports the thought that a BSN is necessary for a nurse to be able to provide competent and effective bedside nursing. I do believe that higher educational levels improve our critical thinking skills, among other things.

    It is wonderful that nurses seek to increase their formal education. I think it is fine when they don't and continue to practice good and compassionate nursing. I do not believe that professionalism is necessarily married to education, professional regard and respect are generally earned by our work behavior rather than by the alphabet salad after our names (when interacting with other health care disciplines).
    tntrn likes this.
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    Your interpretation of stats is ludicrous. The bias towards BSNs is predominantly new grads though still some towards ADNs, thus looking at an overall RN population is misleading. The new grad stats I posted earlier show a 10% more employed instead of 3% more employed.

    Also, where are you getting this idea that there are no clinical placements for more BSN students if ADN programs shut down?
    In Denver, ASN programs are losing their placements to BSN programs. In fact, one longtime ASN program shut down last year stating this as a reason.

    Many ASN programs are sending their students over 100 miles away to find clinical sites.

    With 10+ qualified applicants for every nursing school slot, students will make the sacrifice, as they do now.
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    I didn't interpret those stats, the Arizona BON did, feel free to take it up with them.

    The majority of ASN programs don't compete with BSN programs for spots, although all of those students would be added to the already overburdened BSN clinical placement spots. Do think there's plenty of BSN clinical spots, enough to support that shift? Do disagree that clinical spots are tight in many areas?
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    Quote from MunoRN
    I didn't interpret those stats, the Arizona BON did, feel free to take it up with them.
    Finding a small difference in a whole population to discount an effect that has a slow effect on experienced RNs because it primarily effects new RNs? Then their reasoning is flawed for the reasons I stated. Hopefully you too can see how to critically analyze their illogical conclusion.

    The majority of ASN programs don't compete with BSN programs for spots, although all of those students would be added to the already overburdened BSN clinical placement spots. Do think there's plenty of BSN clinical spots, enough to support that shift? Do disagree that clinical spots are tight in many areas?
    Why could the ASN spots not take BSN students? Surely they do not only rotate to ambulatory care and physicians offices?
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    Quote from SummitAP
    Finding a small difference in a whole population to discount an effect that has a slow effect on experienced RNs because it primarily effects new RNs? Then their reasoning is flawed for the reasons I stated. Hopefully you too can see how to critically analyze their illogical conclusion.
    As I mentioned earlier, the AZ BON numbers were based only on new nurses (Nurses who were licensed for the first time within the last year), not the Nursing population as a whole.

    Quote from SummitAP
    Why could the ASN spots not take BSN students? Surely they do not only rotate to ambulatory care and physicians offices?
    No, they rotate everywhere BSN students do, in my state the number of hours in each area is the same standard for both ADN and BSN programs.

    We looked at whether it was feasible to have centrally located classes with clinicals 3 or 4 hours away. The best option for trying to achieve this was to clump clinicals and class time (a week of class time then a week of clinical time). The problem we had is that this goes against the direction Nursing education is trying to move, so essentially we'd be taking a step backwards. Since we can't centralize clinical spots, the better option was to de-centralize classes to better coordinate with clinical availability.

    What we ended up deciding on was to geographically disperse the BSN curriculum and the BSN model, utilizing existing geographically dispersed educational facilities (Community Colleges).
    Last edit by MunoRN on Nov 19, '12
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    That clears it up. So the analysis was only for new grads in AZ. That makes more sense. We can leave it at AZ not necessarily being representative of the rest of the nation, but it is a matter up to the state.
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    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I agree with all of your comments but one. You list perfectly good reasons to obtain a BSN and you are right. However the part about "tons of professions require a bachelors degree for ENTRY". I say so what? I could give a damn about how other professions choose to conduct themselves. Much of it is only degree inflation anyway. The diversity brought to nursing through the availabiliety of the local community college nursing program is our strength.

    Some people don't consider minimal education and the inability to spell anything as diversity or strength.

    Embarrassment? Maybe.
    SummitRN likes this.
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    I think anyone with minimal education would know that spelling is covered in one's elementary education; after that, the damage is done and improvement of those skills doesn't happen very easily, so slamming on someone with a "community college education" for one misspelled word is sort of silly, if that's what you were doing. So would be a claim that someone with higher degrees is going to have better spelling skills as a result of those higher degrees. I went to law school with someone who graduated in the top 5% that couldn't distinguish between their, they're and there, or you're and your. I can assure you that law school did not improve those skills for her, as I read many post graduate motions of hers and the misspellings were still there. (Or, they were still their. lol)
    SummitRN likes this.
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    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Some people don't consider minimal education and the inability to spell anything as diversity or strength.

    Embarrassment? Maybe.
    LOL, must have been all that fancy book learning in I got at the university BSN program I graduated from. Diversity IS our strength.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
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    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!
    I think anyone with minimal education would know that spelling is covered in one's elementary education; after that, the damage is done and improvement of those skills doesn't happen very easily, so slamming on someone with a "community college education" for one misspelled word is sort of silly, if that's what you were doing.
    *** Thanks for your comments but for the record I graduated form a well respected state university BSN program.


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